I Hate Inverted Nipples
 

One spoke on my ENVE SES 6.7 wheels became detensioned. Simple fix, a couple of turns with a spoke wrench, quick turn on the truing stand, check spoke tension with a tension gauge, if you’re really anal, and your done.

Wrong. The wheels have recessed nipples. So I had to buy a special spoke wrench, which 4 different local bike shops didn’t have. Then once I got the wrench, take the tire off, deal with the mess of the tire sealant, take off the rim tape. Then you can actually fix the wheel ( which is harder because you can’t see inside to get the wrench seated on the nipples. Once you’ve got the wheel trued, then you have to retape the wheel add sealant, get the tire back on, reinflate the tire with a cannister or compressor and hope it seats.

Huge hassle for virtually no advantage.

I never gave it much thought, I think my wife would be pissed if I gave it any more thought.

The data, I’ve seen is that the aero savings is between 0.5 and 0.9 watts.

ENVE says they use recessed nipples because it alllows them to design rims where the spoke holes are molded not drilled, and that their design puts less stress on the rim and the spoke for a stronger wheel.

The watt saving is truly deminimis. The alleged strength advantage in my experience is a non issue. I’ve never had a problem with rims cracking or spokes breaking on comparable wheels, such as Zipp that do not use recessed nipples. Also I don’t see why you can’t mold spoke holes and still use conventional nipples.

For me, the theoretical advantages of recessed nipples are imperceptible, while the hassles are very real

Yeah, that sounds like a massive hassle for little to no real benefit.

Even if the design improves some measurement of strength in the wheel, its not like traditionally built carbon wheels are blowing up left and right due to having external nipples. Itd be interesting to find out what specifically is stronger and how much stronger.

In defense - if the molding is stronger, less material is needed there and the rim can be made lighter or use that material elsewhere to improve stiffness or impact resistance.

And likewise in defense - inverted nipples are far harder for strangers to play with! You may have to go out and buy as special tool but you know nobody's been messing with them while you weren't looking.

All my bikes show off their (many) chromed brass nipples with pride.

It sounds like some of the hassles you encountered were due to running tubeless. Just sayin' ...

Let's work on ... aero nipples. Calling for expertise in mechanics, aerodynamics, and/or fluid dynamics.

True. The process would be less of a hassle with tubed clinchers, but still more hassle than with conventional nipples.

I would gladly for go recessed nipples before giving up tubeless.

The wheels have hookless rims and are specifically called out as being for only tubeless tires.
So they are inherently a hassle.

Just looked up the cost- $2850 for a set? Hopefully this is a one time hassle and the wheels are without issue moving forward.

I imagine the non-hookless version was considerably more expensive.

Lookit meee ! ! ! I'm different ! ! ! I'm better ! ! !

In fairness to ENVE, I’ve had good luck with their products. The previous ENVE wheels I had worked well (although they had regular nipples.) And the one warranty issue I had with ENVE they handled more than generously.

Also, I’m guessing that a lot of people who buy ENVE wheels aren’t doing their own maintenance, so it’s the dealer’s hasslenot theirs.

For me, the aggravation is enough to think twice about buying another wheel set with this design.

Wut?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1f590112b3.gif

Really ? ? Amazingly expensive proprietary "improvements" ?

It really wasn't all that clear who that was aimed at.

Again, wut?

I apologize for my vague comment

So I thought someone would make the case for the aero advantage. Have we all become so practical that we”re not willing to to throw time money and effort at >1 watt savings?

A watt here and a watt there and pretty soon you have spent $500. It all adds up + you get there 15 seconds faster!

I don't think there's much of a monetary cost for internal nipples and, given how seldom most people break spokes, there usually isn't more effort involved. In that case, why not take the free 1 W?

Another "Wut?"

Though maybe it was meant as a joke.

I’ll take a free watt any day, right down to my aero socks. But I am cheap that way.

Edit. When I first started road biking back in the 80s and would start breaking spokes, since I couldn’t afford a wheel builder, I would buy a wheel off the rack and would hit a pot hole or something and break another spoke. This went on for several years. Finally could afford to have decent aluminum wheels built and the problem went away. Ah the ‘good ole days’

Hang on here- you haven't come out of a store to find your wheels have been totally disassembled and spokes are just flopping in the wind?

...me neither.

admittedly breaking a spoke is pretty rare, but a bit of truing is much more common, and requires all the hassle outlined above.

In my case, just one spoke on the back wheel became completely de tensioned after a 1000 miles or so, which seemed a bit weird