For the shorter rides, I have to agree with what a number of guys have been posting: use Gatorade and water. That is what I use for my daily training rides.

But for longer rides (>40), I use Gatorade and water BUT……I add some Surge for some protein in the form of whey-protein hydrolysate and BCCAs. But, has anyone besides me tried Surge?
Check out Surge at:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...ydra?id=459244

By the way, John Berardi is a great guy. If you have questions on exactly how to use Surge (he developed it) when you cycle, go to his website at http://www.johnberardi.com/ and ask him (e-mail).

He personally answers questions. By the way, Surge tastes great.

If anyone tried it? How does it compare with Accelerade and Cytomax?

IMHO, large amounts of predigested protein put a lot of strain
on your system. Use tiny amounts during, and then a small amount after.

Surge is the best stuff ever. Period. I'd have one scoop in my full water bottle during the ride and two scoops slammed immediately after.

Not to mention it tastes like angel food cake! *drool*. I need to walk to the kitchen and fix me some NOW.

LOL i might want to try this stuff. IS it very expenxive

They make foie gras by sticking a tube down a birds throat and shoving lots of food in. The forced feeding increases the size of the liver by as much as four times. You are doing something similar with
predigested protein.

You have a 20 minute window after exercise when glycogen is formed at 3 times the normal rate. But even there what can the body use in 20 minutes? I'd guess 5 or 10 grams. If you are using such a product you should find the ideal dosage, and cut back to it.

I read the comments with interest. I was not sure the analogy above applies and is correct. Anyway, I wrote Dr. Beraldi. His reply is below:

As far as those comments on the site, check out this article to rebut the protein comment:
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/dear.htm

As far as the other comments:

1) If liver volume were to increase by that amount, there would be abnormal liver function readings...Also, there would be some scientific evidence of liver hypertrophy in high protein diet situations...Neither are present in human studies.

2) As far as the glycogen comment, there is an increased glycogen resynthesis rate after exercise for up to 3 hours. Further, higher carb feedings increase glycogen resynthesis dramatically. In our studies we've used 0.8g/kg (with 0.4g/kg protein) every 1 hour and saw a boost in glycogen resynthesis vs 1.2g carb/kg alone and placebo drinks alone.

3) After exercise the goal is to boost glycogen and protein turnover/recovery and immune system function. Therefore the idea that you should "cut down" to what's optimal only focusses on glycogen while ignoring the other concerns (protien recovery/immune function).

And here's an interesting article to read that'll discuss some of this...
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do...ydra?id=461132

Regards

Univega

I mixed up a personal mix of gatorade sludge during the 160 miler that I did. By mile 130, I was high and flying, I must've recorded my fastest speeds during my last 20 miles.
I basically mixed 3 packets of gatorade powder (designed to be used with 60 ounces of water or some insane amount like that) into 16 ounces and kept chugging it down during the ride.

That's a relief. I really thought you were talking about http://www.insulators.com/news/images/surge1.gif

Univega,
I was making an analogy. I am in favor of a postworkout snack.
But cyclists don't need massive amounts of protein. I used to be a weightlifter, I am no stranger to predigested protein.
It's easy to overdo. The trainers I read say that for cyclists you want some carbs and a few grams of protein. No study has ever shown cyclists need large amounts of protein, much less in a predigested form. Just go easy on the stuff, ok?

Sprinters need protein, cyclists need carbs.
Then again if you want to climb really well, you need to build up some muscle.

Late:

I do understand your point. Anything is excesses is not good. I feel many people; especially those with weight problems, exercise too little and eat too many carbs and very little protein. Though that isn’t an issue for people on this site, it is for the general population.

Also there seems to be a lot of myths floating around about protein. You can’t digest more than 30 grams per sitting and protein will shut down your kidneys are two of my favorites.

I just thought it might be advantageous for cycles, especially sprinters (as slvoid pointed out) and the long distance guys to increase their protein intake to help their bodies rebuild. Surge (NOT the soft drink) adds a modest amount of protein and tastes great. I have gotten a lot of great advice from this site. Thought I might share what seems to work for me.

By the way, I also lift weights and that may make me more conscious of my carb, protein and fat intake than others.

You need BOTH in pretty heavy doses. Extended aerobic exercise is extremely catabolic. You don't rebuild catabolized muscle or prevent catabolism with just CARBS. You've got to have protein and lots of it. Unless you want those little stick legs.

Out of curiosity, what do you recommend? I lift and cycle and go for around one gram of protein per pound of body weight. Since I weight 170, I try to get 170 grams of protein. I isn’t always easy and have to eat ever three hours.

:roflmao:

That all depends on a ton of things such as your goals - get bigger, lose weight, etc. In most considered opinions, it's best to get 1-1.5 grams of protein per pound of lean muscle mass, so it sounds like you're getting the right amount. You also need steady complex carbs in a healthy degree and of course more simple stuff while riding.

I eat every 3 hours myself. Sounds like you're doing the right things. Just eat and train, my man!

IMO riders should get some protein, but more carbs, for rides over 1.5hrs. Don't forget electrolytes. I used to drink Gatorade but it just made me more thirsty and I would get sugar rushes, then crashes. Screw that. I then tried Accelorade, then Cytomax's stuff...I forget the name.. then tried Hammer's HEED and have been using that ever since. For post-rides I use Hammer's Recoverite within 5 minutes of getting off the bike. I gotta admit, the sh*t works. OK, where's my damn endorsement goodies! ;) I hate paying the asking price for Recoverite but it works for me. HEED's pretty cheap in comparison to the other brands. Sometimes I get tired of the flavor, but a little white-grape juice added in takes care of that.

I wish it was! I loved that stuff....it was even good after sitting in a hot car all day.

I miss surge, all I have here is MtnDew and MelloYello.