ovoleg

Never, ever, ever, ever use the rear brakes alone when going downhill very fast

Our professor did not show up today(probably jewish) so I decided to ride today. I swapped out the seats from my Univega(much better seat, I bet it will work well on long distance). I got up to the top of Reseda and started going downhill. I wasn't wearing my sunglasses(night) so by about 27+mph tears were flying out of my eyes(not fun). I hit 48mph down the hill and then I saw the stop light up ahead. I had my left hand on the bar and the right in the drops. I dont know why( I ALWAYS use the front brake) but I used the rear brake this time. At about 40mph, the rear tire locked up and I was sliding/wobbling, it was NUTS, I can't believe I even recovered from that. I got a bit nervous so I pumped the rear brake instead(its a habit that I have from driving in slippery conditions) but that didn't work. It was green, I let off the brake and turned right onto the street.

I was scared sh*tless. At that speed, I don't even want to imagine about what would happen if I fell sideways.

Is it good to use the rear brake in conjunction with the front or what? I can't seem to have a use for it. I only use the front brake but for some dumb reason I used the rear this time.

/scared sh*tless and going to sleep/

sunninho

Use both brakes at the same time, always. Good you recovered, man.

Jakey

I use both....

twahl

Theory I operate on: Front brake is stopping power, rear brake is stabilization.

55/Rad

Use both brakes. And take Tampa instead. It's not as much fun but it's still good.

55/Rad

sunninho

Think of them like they are car brakes. When you brake a car, all tires are engaged in braking, not just one. This way, you won't spin out of control and your brakes will wear evenly.

spunky

I use the rear to scrub off initial speed and then use the front if extra is needed. Personally, I'd rather lock up the rear wheel and have it slide out from under me than lock the front and go over the bars if I had the choice.

tinrobot

I just put my feet on the ground, Fred Flintstone-style.

CPcyclist

If you are locking up the Rear you need to get some weight slid back over the wheel. It is best to use both brakes.

After locking up the rear you should check and make sure the tire is OK. There will likely be a flat spot the may become an annoyance thump, thump.

spunky

That's good advice. I actually don't lock the rear wheel. My point was that because the front brake has so much grip, you need to be careful not to lock it because the results could be very ugly at 40+ mph. Yes...both brakes are best.

'nother

Shoulda gone with your usual front only. Bummer.

Sheldon Brown disagrees on the "both" theory and advocates for the front "most of the time", preferring the rear in only a few cases: slippery or bumpy surfaces, on long mountain descents (but even then only alternating with the front, not both), and in the event of mechanicals that make it impossible or unsafe to use the front brake.

The only cases he recommends both together are when the front brake alone does not provide sufficient stopping power (due to poor adjustment/wear or wet conditions) or on tandems or long recumbents.

See https://sheldonbrown.com/brakturn.html#frontorrear

LA_Rider

Get some clear glasses too.

spunky

From Sheldon's article: "The fastest that you can stop any bike of normal wheelbase is to apply the front brake so hard that the rear wheel is just about to lift off the ground. In this situation, the rear brake cannot contribute to stopping power, since it has no traction." And if you try this on a 40 mph descent under an emergency panic stop and don't get the front braking force applied just right and squeeze a hair too hard....you've locked the front wheel and unweighted the rear.

'nother

spunky, I'm not sure what you're trying to say, are you refuting or confirming?

The thing is, if you use rear only or front + rear, you're more likely to lock it up, skid, and lose control than you are to lock up the front and go over the handlebars, especially if you regularly practice using the front and know how to modulate it properly (you omit that Mr. Brown also advocates practice, so it becomes habit, and so you don't panic in an emergency and overdo it).

It's a little counter-intuitive but the fact is, the front provides way more stopping power than the rear. There may be a small risk of going over when using the front only, but my guess is that risk is much much smaller than the risk of locking up the rear and losing control when using the rear only, or front and rear simultaneously.

sunninho

Firm braking with both front and rear, simultaneously, has gotta be better than rear-only or front-only -- especially going downhill at 40mph. I agree with spunky.

'nother

It is not necessarily better. By braking with the front, you take some weight off the rear, so you have less traction . . . which means you actually increase the chances of skidding the rear, and fishtailing. I don't think that's better than just slowing down quickly. But I also don't think everyone should rush out and start grabbing the front brake full force at 40mph with no practice. Ya gotta practice.

spunky

'nother, I'm somewhat refuting what Sheldon is saying or at least cautioning against relying soley upon front braking for 95% of your stopping. I agree fully that you should practice modulating the front brake and fine tune your touch...the same for the rear as well. But my point is that there are likely to be instances where your modulations practiced are affected by other factors; road surface, weather, different shifts in weight and load, etc.... To me it seems to be putting all your eggs in one basket by relying almost exclusively on a single technique that is subject to so many mitigating factors. It's the reason why cars have ABS, you can actually stop faster without ABS if you are skilled enough, but in a panic situation, most people are not skilled enough to modulate the brakes effectively and would lock the tires anyway. I'm arguing that there are some situations in cycling that apply similarly. Ovoleg's problem was not that he used his rear brake, rather that he used it too hard and pumping it actually made the weight transfer more erratic and less stable.

ovoleg

I have some on order right now, thanks !

There were tears coming down my face like mad when I hit 47.

I will take a look at the rear wheel/tire tommorow. It seemed to be ok, I slid like crazy though.

I usually use the front but the position of my hand screwed me up, i just grabbed on the brakes because I saw the light and I don't know about other drivers letting me pass. 40mph over the bars would suck too but I never locked up the front before

Would cool stop pads help overall? I saw them at the LBS for $15 for 2 pads so would be like a $35 upgrade...I heard people praise them here? I have generic pads with Ultegra brakes

catatonic

best bet is take a cue from mountain riding:


get BEHIND the saddle, then brake.

What it does is moves your center of balance lower and further back, allowing for more rear tire grip, as well as the ability to put more force down on the front brakes.

Given, this won't work on a good many raod bikes, but if you can, give it a try.

The_Convert

Sheldon Brown- n; A total idiot who bought a domain name and with it the trust of many cyclists who take his worthless garbage seriously.

Cyclepath

I swear by the gray Aztec pads, they stop well & almost as well in the wet as in the dry.

lilHinault

Twahl's got it dead nuts. Front is stopping, rear is stabilization. Good to use some rear, but don't squeeze it nearly as hard as your front, you'll just lock your rear wheel up and things get too interesting.

badkarma

by just using the rear brake, you're lucky you didn't melt your rear brake pads (possibly causing a flat by the heat dissipated from the brakes heating the rim, thus expanding the air in the tube to a high pressure).

nova

Nearly every hand book or word of advice from others has always said to use front and rear breaks at the same time. Apply more force to the front lever than the rear. Thisis how ive always ridden and I dont think my rear tire has skidded more than a couple 3 inches to one side or the other. Down hill up flat dont matter.

If you realy hammer just the front you bet it can put you over the bars but with even moderate force on the back it dont tend to happen.

Avalanche325

Definately use both. They have to be modulated properly. This depends on all the the factors that are happening at the moment. For a panic stop, shifting your weight back while applying both brakes will greatly increase your stopping power and stability. Of course you are using the front a lot more than the rear.

Rear only should just be used to scrub off a little speed. Not for stopping.

Cars do the same thing. There is this little device called a proportionaing valve. It decreases the preasure on the rear brakes. That way you have balanced braking.

If the rear wheel starts to skid, and a good rider can usually tell when it is about to happen and ease off, you can recover just by letting go for a second. If you skid the front wheel, not an over the bars thing but a washout, you will be on the ground in about a nanosecond.

I am glad to see so many posters that use both. Mr. Brown's article on front only braking is great, as long as you only ride in a straight line in a laboratory.