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Veloce = 105 or ultegra?

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Veloce = 105 or ultegra?

Old 10-21-05, 12:34 PM
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brinstar
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Veloce = 105 or ultegra?

I have never owned a Campagnolo groupset bicycle and it appears that camp has quite a few more groupsets than shimano. So I am curious as to where the Veloce groupset would fit in to the shimano world. Would it be considered an Ultegra(rec,race) class or more in the 105(fitness,rec) class?

oh and an off topic what is the guesstimate weight of modern compact alluminum bicycles?

Thank you
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Old 10-21-05, 12:43 PM
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Before this year I would have put it closer to Ultegra but now I would put it closer to 105. I still think it is a bit better than 105 but it is largely a personal preference thing. Veloce this year does have a AL compact crank and compact specific FD, I think 105 gets the outboard bearing crank though.
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Old 10-21-05, 12:50 PM
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you'll probably get a variety of answers. Some people think that only Chorus and Record are any good, and the rest of Campag is crap, but others think that Veloce totally 'owns' Ultegra
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Old 10-21-05, 01:04 PM
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Hi,

I have both, and I think it's just under Ultrega in smoothness (although comparing an Ultrega 9 with Veloce 10). I think the Campy system is just a little nicer then Shimano for shifting, you can swing multiple gears, very clean cables, and nice hoods. We have 105's on my wifes road bike and our Fuji tandem, they are fine, but I think Veloce is better. Between Veloce and Ultrega, I would choose whatever felt better riding. Again, Ultrega might be a hair smoother, but my Veloce is very crisp.

John
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Old 10-21-05, 01:11 PM
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Hi

My new Lemond Sarthe is a 10 speed Veloce, while a bike I had last year (and which was stolen) was a Fuji Cross 105 (9 speed). I also own a Trek 2300 (Ultegra 9 speed).

I find that the Veloce brakes are as reponsive and effective as the Ultegra brakes. I also noticed that the Veloce shifters were not as smooth as the Ultegra and maybe even not as smooth as the 105 shifters.
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Old 10-21-05, 02:43 PM
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I have Veloce 9 speed on one of my bikes.

Shifting is excellent and almost seamless. Nice mechanical "click" when shifting. In about 10000 miles Ive only had to do minor adjustments and maintenence. It runs better than when it was new.

Ive used Ultegra 9spd and I'd say Veloce is on par mechanically, but it carries a weight penalty.

For the average user though the extra weight isn't that big of a deal. I'd classify Veloce as more on the rec side due to the weight but mechanically its rock-solid.

*For what its worth if I were racing Id probably run DA or Chorus/Record over Ultegra anyways. I don't really think 105 is comparable to Veloce.
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Old 10-21-05, 02:52 PM
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I would put Veloce at a close par with Ultegra. Ultegra has a far superior hollowtech crank w/outboard bearings. However, Campy still has the benny of being repairable, and still feels more ergo to me.
For those who think Centaur is equal to Ultegra, I won't go there. Centaur is way better than Ultegra. It has far more options, and also has lighter weight compact and carbon cranks available, including the gray anodized line. Very sweet.
I would say the new 10s 105 is probably at par with Veloce more so. However, it hasn't come out yet.

I'm waiting for the specs on the new SRAM road set. I like the look of their new crank and chainrings.
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Old 10-21-05, 05:08 PM
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My vote is that 105 and Veloce are comparable.
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Old 10-21-05, 05:32 PM
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well it sure seems like all the opinions vary pretty drastically.
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Old 10-21-05, 05:33 PM
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I have not tested Veloce or the 105 10 speed before so I can not provide a valid opinion.
(Not that this would stop a lot of other folks from providing thier unfounded perceptions)
I rode the new Ultegra 10 earlier this year and I have to say that it is a bit smoother that my 2 year old DA 9.

l'd suggest you get down to your LBS and decide for yourself. The preference of fit and feel of the hoods & shifting will vary from one person to the next.

In my tests, I preferred the lighter touch of Shimand DA shifting over Record. Also, the thumb tabs required me to move my hands back from the hood to shift. It also took more effort to reach the thumb tabs from the drops.

The ergonomics of Shimano agreed with me more and I switch 2 years ago. Other people WILL have different opinions.

Happy testing!

T.J. (Ex-Campy snob)

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Old 10-21-05, 05:41 PM
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For durability, veloce>dura ace.

For smoothness of shifting veloce=105

For quickness of shifting, veloce=ultegra.

The only advantage to centaur over veloce, with the exception of rear derailleur, hubs, and bottom bracket, is for nicer finish.

Chorus gets you ball bearings in the shifters. Record gets you teflon-coated internals.
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Old 10-21-05, 08:40 PM
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I would say closer to Ultegra but I am a Campy guy so...

And what do you guys that say ultegra is smoother mean?
I have used both and both shift "smooth" from on cog to the next no miss shifts no chain noise. Is it that you don't like the feed back the shifter gives you ie the clicks... what?
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Old 10-21-05, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by CPcyclist
I would say closer to Ultegra but I am a Campy guy so...

And what do you guys that say ultegra is smoother mean?
I have used both and both shift "smooth" from on cog to the next no miss shifts no chain noise. Is it that you don't like the feed back the shifter gives you ie the clicks... what?
Smooth, for me, was a easier / lighter touch to shift in both directions, noticeably shorter throws and it shifted faster than my DA9 from the larger cog to small. Perhaps it was due to the closer ratio of 10 vs 9. I use to like the firm "click" of Campy but now prefer the refined subtleness of Shimano shifting and the ergonomics of shifting brifters to thumb tabs.

To each, their own.

T.J.

You should go to your LBS, hop on a Ultegra 10 bike with an open mid, drop any preconcieved conclusions and judge for yourself.

Last edited by Tequila Joe; 10-21-05 at 11:43 PM.
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Old 10-21-05, 11:47 PM
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Only drawbacks to Veloce are stamped chainrings and slightly heavy cartridge bearing hubs. Everything else is really top notch, fantastic shifters. At least run the AC-H BB though, or upgrade to 2005 Centaur BB. I'd willingly train and tour on Veloce or Mirage hubs but I'd move up to Daytona-Centaur-Chorus-Record for race wheels.

I think that 105 is really OK.... but I have experienced poor durability with the 5500 BB, they seem to crunch very early. 6500 BB really nice though.

All in all, Campagnolo noses Shimano in this middle of the range... except for the V/M hubs, which while fine, Ultegra is certainly a superior design and more raceable.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:43 AM
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I think im gonna switch over to campy just to try it out. Im currently running 105 9 speed shifters with a dura ace 10sp rd and ultegra 9sp fd (don't ask). I figure if I can sell all that and pick up some campy 10sp shifters (veloce or centaur) and derailluers all i'd have to spring for is some cassete spacers and a chain.
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Old 10-22-05, 04:46 AM
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Rode a friends Sarthe and liked the Veloce. Different kind (feel) of shift to my Ultegra 9 but on the whole wouldn't put it far behind. The hoods are gawd awful though.
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Old 10-22-05, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by brinstar
well it sure seems like all the opinions vary pretty drastically.

Yeah... but we all know Shimano is better than Campy.....right??
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Old 10-22-05, 07:36 AM
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Went from Shim to Camp....
Just different, that's all. I really think it's up to the user.

For me:

Veloce is a more mechanical shift....it clicks in and you 'feel' it. Ultegra is softer. smooter....less feedback in the hand when shifting.

I will say that I felt what many others have written about the hoods too....at first when going from Ultegra to Campy those thumbs shifters seemed really strange. Now I can't imagine it any other way.
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Old 10-22-05, 09:42 AM
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I just switched to centaur from an ultegra/105 mix and there's no looking back. rebuildable shifters, more front dr trim options(worth it for this alone imo), hidden shifter cables. i think centaur is actually the best balance of value and performance in the range.
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Old 10-22-05, 12:21 PM
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I've never ridden Campy Veloce...but I just got new Ultegra 10 and it is hot sh*%$! Very very close to Dura Ace. I'm ecstatic with the new Ultegra 10.
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Old 10-22-05, 01:03 PM
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I have no experience with 105 but I have lots with Veloce/Centaur and Ultegra. For me the major difference is that Ultegra "feels" like it sneaks into a gear change while Campy seems to do it faster and more definitively. There is no question that Ultegra is quieter and provides less tactile feedback. Campy feels a little noiser but more positive. That's about the best I can do to explain it. My Veloce bike is actually a smoother shifter than my Chorus bike for whatever reason so I don't think smoothness is the issue.

Also I tend to prefer the way Ultegra shifts to the way Dura Ace shifts even though Dura Ace, like Campy, "feels" more positive and faster. I can't explain that either. It is just perception and preference.

The bottom line is that they are all competent shifters and all will perform about the same when properly adjusted. The "feelings" I mention above are subtle and not really very important. My personal favorite is Chorus because I like the carbon fiber brake levers and I prefer the thumb/fingers shifting process. Purely preference. This has nothing to do with performance. I would be content with Ultegra or Veloce, for that matter on any bike. Understand that the differences aren't so much in performance as they are in perception, pride of ownership, bling issues and so forth. Don't make any of the gruppos the reason to choose a bike. Worry about more important things like fit, handling, wheels etc.
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Old 10-23-05, 10:25 PM
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so in terms of durability. Which of the modern groupsets will take you the furthest into the next decade or two?
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Old 10-23-05, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by brinstar
so in terms of durability. Which of the modern groupsets will take you the furthest into the next decade or two?
That's a very specific question, and the specific answer is Campy Chorus or Record. They are rebuildable. The old 9 speed shifters can even be converted to 10 speed. They go a long way to build this into their components. I'm not saying this is good, bad, desirable, undesirable--it just is.
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Old 10-23-05, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by brinstar
well it sure seems like all the opinions vary pretty drastically.
It does seem like that if you come with the assumption that the groupsets vary drastically (in anything but price). At the 105/Veloce/Ultegra level we are talking about very, very fine points which only the owners of such equipment tend to notice and crab about.

I regularly ride Sora but within the past 2 weeks had the opportunity to ride 105, Ultegra and DuraAce. Now, there's a fairly noticeable difference in crispness, etc. between my Sora and 105. But honestly I could tell no difference between 105, Ultegra, or DuraAce, in terms of performance. It would be interesting to blindfold someone, put them on a bike with one of these different setups and then ask them to tell you which one is which.
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Old 10-24-05, 01:36 AM
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I just bought a set of new veloce shifters from ebay and a shiftmate from jtek today. The 105 shifters are going bye bye!
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