Golf vs Cycling... trying to win a debate
 

I was going to add to the 'cost of cycling' thread, but I think this deserves it's own topic.

My buddy and I were debating the cost of golfing vs. cycling. He was arguing that golf was at most the same price as cycling per unit time spent in the activity, if not a bit cheaper. I believe he is severely misinformed.

He is a hard core golfer who spends 3 hours in a cart and hits the country club bar for glycogen replenishment. If my cycling cost is $0.25/mile and do a three hour ride of 50 miles, that's about $13/hour. While my bike was certainly more expensive than his clubs, I am able to cycle more often and he has fixed costs of green fees, cart, bar bill, etc, that certainly add up very quickly. There are many sunk costs in cycling such as tools, clothing, accessories, etc, etc, but I told him that paying green fees and cart is like buying a new bike jersey for every ride, which seemed to bolster my argument. He on the other hand is able to expense about 33% of his fixed costs due to golfing w/ business associates. Do you think the IRS would mind if I expensed a ride with my co-workers???

Add the health benefits of cycling and the fact my cycling costs continue to decrease at a much slower rate than his costs (because of his higher fixed costs - green fees, bar bill, etc), I believe it's no contest.

On the other hand, I know a lot of people golf to be outdoors to enjoy the scenery, which I do when I cycle as well. I suppose one could argue the mental boost for the aesthetic aspect of golf and a little bit of exercise especially sans cart.

Anyone have other ideas how to bolster my argument?

Are you trying to compare golf and cycling from cost/physical/mental perspective?

In terms of cost/physical benefits there is no comparison. Walking around for 3 hours will never be the physical equivalent of riding a hard climb. So no matter how expensive is the bike, cycling will win for sure.

In terms of cost/mental benefits. It really depends on how you practice golf or cycling. Both sports can be very stressful if you are competing for a result, and both sport can be fun if done purely for leisure. So I think they are equal.

As far as actual money goes, I think cycling is more expensive than golf ... at least it is for me.

- bicycle
- bicycle stuff (upgrades, gear, clothing, accessories, etc.)
- club fees (I belonged to two clubs this year and was considering a third)
- fuel to get to the start of club rides (my club rides start 150 kms away from where I live)
- food and other expenses on the rides
- airfare to get to the international cycling events I do
- accommodations and food for those international events
- the entry fees for those international events
- travel insurance for travelling outside of Canada
- bicycle insurance

I know some years my costs end up being in the neighborhood of $1/mile ... and I do quite a few miles.

Its hard to golf to work but golf carts can be filled with plenty of groceries so I guess there is a practical use for the sport.
Cycling can be used to double up your commute as fitness time. Even if the journey takes longer (which is not always the case), it is quality time. You can then assign your cycling budget to transportation, not sport.

Are you sure that your bike costs more than his golf clubs? I used to sell bikes to golfers and found that bike costs pretty well mimic golf club costs. The good stuff is about 10 times the cost of entry level.

Once you gear up bicycling is pretty cheap. The variable costs of bicycling are basically just tires, tubes and once-in-a-while a chain so the more that you ride, the lower your per mile cost gets. Golfers have to pay significant green fees every time that they play and, if they golf like me, they have to buy a lot of balls.

Most of those costs either aren't really bicycling costs (you'd eat whether you were bicycling or not) or are costs (travel expenses) that would be identical on a golfing trip.

You should be good at it then. Nah, that would take talent. Most that hate golf aren't coordinated enough to play. A very difficult game to play well. I grew up playing competitive golf. Golf and cycling are really polar opposites in many respects. I prefer to cycle but I still love to play a round of golf now and then. Golf is more expensive then cycling period. A nice of set of golf clubs is minimum $2k which is pretty close to the price of a decent roadbike. Like a nice roadbike, golf clubs should be fitted as well. Yes there is maintenance cost in cycling...cloths costs are about the same between the two sports... most avid golfers own a number of pairs of golf shoes at about 200 a copy for nice ones. Golf is expensive and cycling is reasonable IMO...not as cheap as tennis though...another good sport. Today's golf courses designed with great distances between holes which almost mandate use of a golf cart is contrived to extricate more money from patrons which is a shame and a sign of the times and detracts from the sport and relegates it more to the well heeled. Even with this practice, many of the public courses near my house are being bulldozed in replacement of condo development simply because of the bottom line. $50-100 to play 18 holes just isn't worth it and I have had the privlege to play at some of the nicest clubs which is always a treat. I would still rather be out on my bike jamming on beautiful day versus waiting to tee off behind a foursome of angry guys like Euro with no talent to play.
George

You are a golfer? :)

Do you have a boat as well? :)

tee hee

As a recovering golf adict I think I can speak to this point.

#1 Your friend isn't a hard core golfer in my mind if he rides in a cart. Unless forced to (which it can be at a lot of places) a hard core golfer will walk.

#2 like with cycling the cost of golf can vary. In my area you can get a membership that costs you $500 for all the golf you can play in the year, play the same clubs you have played for years, and play golf balls you find around the course. If that is the case then golf for you can be cheap enough. But you can also joint a CC with a $40k (and that isn't even high) initiation fee plus fees of a few grand per month. Every year you could get new clubs...or multiple times per year (I did this...like a fool)...and you could play only the best $50 a dozen golf balls and use a ball for only 2-3 holes like the pros. If this is the golfer you refer to then golf is REALLY expensive.

Of course the same holds true for cycling, a cyclist could ride an old steel framed Colnago or Bianchi, or Chinelli or some other high end bike that he/she has had for years and other than chains, cassettes, lube and tires it wont cost a lot. But you could also ride a CF/Ti dream bike that costs $20k+ and buy new matching kit every other week. This biker is spending a ton.

IMO if you look at the cheapest route for both and the most expensive route for both then golf costs more money. In the middle is gets really hazy.

Golf will NEVER be an option for me.

Besides, I couldn't golf to work every day :)

...oh, unless I bought a Volkswagen

For me, golf is more expensive. I get my bike stuff for next to nothing. I have to pay for my golf clubs...also, where I ride is a private park. Costs $55 for a seasonal pass. The golf club's a bit more money.

That being said, I belong to a golf club that has unrestricted walking. So we always walk and carry our clubs. Sometimes playing 36 holes...which with our course being almost 7,000 yards from the tips, with walking between the holes amounts to about seven miles of walking for 36 holes. But since it's private, we can typically play 18 in about 3 hours or even a little less. We can play 36 in about six hours. One of the guys also rides bikes. In the summer, we do 40-50 miles in the early AM, then walk a round of golf in the PM.

What's really good is that I can usually make a couple hundred dollars on a round (or lose that.. :eek: )...nobody's gambling on a bike ride...

Handicap's 5...

Euro...a good friend of mine used to be a pro bike racer...he owns a boat. He's in the "top 1,000" :D in the US in slalom water skiing....his son races road and mountain bikes (expert class) and also races jet skis...
You need to get out more often...

Have you guys ever done a full racing season?

I golf and ride bikes, the costs are nearly the same.

Our local courses range from about 25 - 30 dollars a round, some as high as 70 (yess you can pay 100 - 300 per round). Clubs for me were about 500 for intermediate, and with lunch, etc you can spend say 35 - 40 a weekend.

Now race, assuming you have a decient 2k aluminum racing bike, your race fees are 20 - 30 dollars a weekend and assuming you do not win you get nothing back for it. You generally have to drive 40 - 50 miles to a race (15 dollars in fuel), maybe 15 to a golf course max, so with the cost of the bike and a little cheeper racing we are about the same give or take a few dollars.

If you race 20 times per season (average for a socal season) you spend say 600 dollars + fuel = 200 so 800 or so perseason. Gold may cost 20 * 30 = 600 greenfees, maybe 200 for gas and lunch (assuing you walk) so 800.00 dollars.

About the same.

Now if you are a rec rider than things change a bit but think racing for now.

Golf is way, way, way more expensive. There are greens fees to pay for every round or country club dues and fees. Cycling is free (or can be) after you have equipped yourself. I do both. No comparison.

depends on whether your are OCP or OCR and/or whether or not racing is involved

add racing to it and its gonna be like golf, fees to race plus travel expenses plus equipment and medical bills for when you crash

If you do organized rides or races that have entry fees and require transportation and/or lodging, than cycling might approach golf in per-hour cost.

But, if you are like me and ride from home or very close to home 90% and only do a few rides/races that have entry fees each year, than golf would be way more expensive. If you consider the equipment & clothing costs to be a wash, with golf you have:

Greens fees
Driving range fees
Balls
Transportation/lodging costs if you don't like playing the same course all the time

You can cycle without paying any of those fees but you can't golf without paying them.

If it weren't for golf, I wouldn't have a Colnago.
You see, I used golf as a comparison when trying to justify the cost of a new bike. When my brother (an extremely avid golfer) summarized the expenses involved in his beloved sport, a few thousand dollars for a bicycle seemed a great deal less outlandish.
A little off the topic... Sports Illustrated (I think) had a great article a couple of years ago comparing Tiger Woods' acheivement in winning the British Open to Lance Armstrong's accomplishment in the TdF. (As far as physical dangers are concerned, Tiger only has to worry about an ocassional blister, etc., etc.) If only Charles Barkley ("Cycling isn't a sport.") had read it!

You can't compare competitve cycling to recreational golf. If you have ever played competitive golf you would know you have to pay an entry fee on top of the greens fees, and they often times don't play at $30 grees fees courses. Plus you have to get there, no in So Cal I am sure like cycling races there is a lot of competitve golf but when do you have to go to get there (again I know you have to do this with cycling too). Golf balls is the difference here, it may sound wierd to a non competitve golfer but when you play more than a dozen balls that cost $54/dozen per week...it REALLY adds up fast.

Last year was a slow golf year for me...not too many clubs and very few balls and clothes as I quit mid season. But lets see what I spent:

$1300 membership to local public course
$1200 irons
$190 wedges
$300 2 putters
$120 3 wood
$500 Driver
$240 Hybrids
$800 Rounds not at home course

I would guess with balls and other costs I spent around $5k not including travel expenses or time I took off work to go golfing. This was a lower year for me and I didn't play any high end courses and didn't really travel much. All that and I don't compete...I can't imagine how much money Michelle Wie's parents were spending for her to play golf before she turned pro.

No one has mentioned environmental and/or social costs.

1. Water usage in very dry climates. Bicycling - two bottles per day, maybe. Golfing - thousands of gallons per day.

2. Access for all. Bicycling - you can get a *Mart special for about $65, or even find one for $20 at a garage sale. You can ride just about anywhere. Golf - generally limited to those that can pay the green's fee and afford at least a basic set of clubs (or perhaps find them at a garage sale if lucky), and limited to areas specifically designed for golfing.

3. Potential pollution. Golf Courses apply loads of fertilizer and pesticides, creating the potential for runoff/downstream pollution. Bicycling - limited pollution - throwing away old tires and tubes. I would guess that old golf clubs and old bikes have about the same effect when tossed.

4. Transportation/gas usage etc. Golfing - most folks drive to a golf course. Golf carts must be recharged. Golf course maintenance uses gasoline. Bicycling - you are on your wheels.

Other types of social cost?

I think that its difficult to compare since its not apples to apples, but a serious cyclists (but non racing) can spend a couple G a year on equipment maintenance and accessories. Not really much more (and probably less), unless the cyclist is going for the bling factor of top of the line components.

A golf club membership can easily cost 5 grand a year.

I think that Golfers, (the serious kind that join clubs) easily spend much more than cyclists.

Let's compare yachting to show horses.
Or bowling to archery.

I vote for golf.
My clubs weren't nearly as much as my bike, but greens fees are absurd.
And when I travel to Scotland to play the Old Course, look out!

And there ARE similarities: Golf is a Time Trial. It's you against yourself.

That is because the post wasnt about "social costs"

After doing the calculations I have found that golf and cycling are similarly expensive initially. My initial cost for getting back into cycling breaks down like so:

Bike and accessories= $1400
Shoes and clothing = $500
Tools and repair stand = $200
Total = $2100 (not including extra tubes, energy bars, etc.)

I have a reasonably priced set of clubs which brings the cost down a bit. The initial cost breaks down:

Woods = $350
Irons = $750
Putter = $125
Bag = $100
Push cart = $100
Golf balls = $60 (3 boxes)
Shoes = $75
Greens fees = $700 (or more)
Total = $2260

When greens fees are added then I'm spending only $150 more for the first year. However, with the initial costs out of the way, I'm spending much more on golf ($700 + per year in greens fees) opposed to cycling's general maintenance and repair which will more than likely be less than $200 per year. Cycling is the winner in both the expense and health departments.

Thanks. I truly appreciate the "clarification."

Have a GREAT DAY!

You can travel as much or little as you want in both sports. Whoever said a decent pair of clubs costs a minimum of $2,000 is waaaaay off. You can get brand new brand name clubs in the $700 range easily. 700(irons)+300(1wood/3wood) 200(wedge and putter)=1200 for a good set of clubs. You also dont have to spend 40K initiation and 4k per year in dues. I am a member of a nice course. Around 5k initiation fee and about $250 per month for dues. These costs eliminate me ever paying a single green fee. They also just dont go to golf expenses. It pays for parties, tennis, range balls, access to swimming pool, use of gym, and access to restaraunt. So, it is hard to determine the exact dues to golf alone. I would still say golf is more expensive on average, but it definitely depends on who you are talking about. You can blow some serious cash on both sports. I bought a new set of Titliest irons for 700 nine years ago and paid 1000 for my road bike. I am not much of a frills guy. Both great sports and can be as cheap or as expensive as you make them.

Hard to compare. I have a friend who pays close to $10k a year for cc dues. (plus there's some crazy $100k buy-in or something that he inherited.) If you want to know which COULD be the most expensive, golf wins, hands down. Of course, you can go to public courses and rock some crappy clubs for a lot less. but then, you could buy a $20 bike and be on your way.

In conclusion, the cheapest cycling is cheaper than the cheapest golfing and the most expensive cycling is cheaper than the most expensive golfing. In between it just impossible to compare.