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"Bringing Down Lance"

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

"Bringing Down Lance"

Old 11-17-05, 10:07 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by EURO
I just want to take this time out to thank you guys for saving all of our asses. The rest of the world are SO LUCKY to have the US preventing wars by entering Iran, Libya, El Salvador, Nicuragua, Honduras, Lebanon, Grenada, Bolivia, Virgin Islands, Phillipines, Panama, Liberia, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bosnia and Afghanistan in the years between 1980 and now. As you can see from that list, those guys would have been a formidable opponent in any war with NATO, and the US's moves to prevent world wars with these nations are so heroic I cannot even comprehend them.

If it wasn't for those noble actions from a freedom loving and democractic nation such as the US, the whole world would be in ashes, floating off into space like dust. I also would like to thank you for sharing this top secret knowledge with us, humble board members who in our terrible ignorance may mistrust and critisise those who seek to save our lives. I'm crying as I type this. I also have an erection.

Euro's saddle must have a cutout according to his pee pee. That, or his Hugh Grant poster is about to get a workout.
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Old 11-18-05, 04:03 AM
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When you can start taking care of your own and stop asking us for help - then we'll welcome your input. Until then, sit down.
When did I last ask you for help?
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Old 11-18-05, 05:07 AM
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I just read this from start to finish. Euro, you crack me up. Good on you.

Armstrong is not the only one to cop the treatment. He is the most high profile rider in the world, obviously you will here about it. I am from Europe and riders are in trouble with drug taking a fair bit, local riders from the area's cycling club canl get in trouble for drugs and have 2 year bans. Local amatuer racers, not the big stars.

Juniors that go into trade teams know there place in the team and who they work for. Mnay of them are introduced into drug taking at a young age because their team mates and team leader are also doing it. It is important to fit in with the clique in teams, if you want a ride in the future. Often your cut of majour winnings or role within the team will depend on how well you fit in.

This can't be true for all bike riders and has to be true for some as they have been caught. No offence, but there are drug cheats in the USA pro sports and track & field that have been caught. The big names will make world news regardless of nationality. Just my 2cents, thanks.
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Old 11-18-05, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Avalanche325
You are obviously one of those people that think the nightly news actually knows the full story about what is going on. If you had spent any time around the intelligence community you would realize that the US has stopped at least 5 world wars from happening since about 1980.

So, I guess the same goes for the doping charges. Most people, including the press, don't have a clue about what is really going on.
Five world wars huh???

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Old 11-18-05, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by EURO
I just want to take this time out to thank you guys for saving all of our asses. The rest of the world are SO LUCKY to have the US preventing wars by entering Iran, Libya, El Salvador, Nicuragua, Honduras, Lebanon, Grenada, Bolivia, Virgin Islands, Phillipines, Panama, Liberia, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bosnia and Afghanistan in the years between 1980 and now. As you can see from that list, those guys would have been a formidable opponent in any war with NATO, and the US's moves to prevent world wars with these nations are so heroic I cannot even comprehend them.

If it wasn't for those noble actions from a freedom loving and democractic nation such as the US, the whole world would be in ashes, floating off into space like dust. I also would like to thank you for sharing this top secret knowledge with us, humble board members who in our terrible ignorance may mistrust and critisise those who seek to save our lives. I'm crying as I type this. I also have an erection.


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Old 11-18-05, 10:22 AM
  #81  
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The United States stops only that which We allow them to stop. It is We that decide when World Wars occur, and it is We that decide who "wins".

Besides, our flag is way cooler.
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Old 11-18-05, 11:25 AM
  #82  
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Anyhow, it's time to vote for person of the year. Lance is one of the nominees.

https://www.time.com/time/personoftheyear/2005/walkup/

Lance needs your vote to get ahead of the Google Guys, Mother Nature, J.K. Rowling, Steve Jobs and Bono.

and who the heck is Rick Warren?
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Old 11-20-05, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by doctorSpoc
???

I missed your 1st post... this is funny... cycling is a sport where a day at the office involves riding inches away for other riders at 60+ km per hours, elbows and shoulders flying... screaming down mountain switchbacks at 100+ km with shear, unrailed cliffs with 100m drop offs... a sport where Armstrong's own teammate died careening down just that sort of decent... you can't be serious right??

my only conclusion is that you have never raced a day in your life... you don't get it.

you seem to think that human are logical creatures, we are not.. i don't understand it but it's 2005 and people still smoke... in Canada 1/3 of th packaging has to contain a warning.. they have colour pictures of smokers lungs and all kinds of disgusting things and tag lines like "Smoking will kill you!" and yet, thousands of people every day walk up to the counter and say give me a pack of 12, give me a carton... yes you get addicted but knowing what people know what would ever prompt anyone to start in the 1st place. if you are trying to say that Armstrong wouldn't have done drugs because it would have been illogical for him to do so... then your argument is deeply flawed because human beings are not logical creatures. people who have people around them who have died of lung cancer from smoking will risk there lives to look "cool"... so what will they do for millions of dollars and fame and immortality in the record books?

by the way non-contenders have all sorts of motivation to take drugs to try to unseat the contenders and contenders have lots of motivation to take drugs to maintain their edge on the new kids on the block... viscious circle.. arguing that Armstong wouldn't take drugs before his 1st TdF win just doesn't make any kind of sense... not to mention that he had a 4th at the Vuelta and was showing some promise going into his 1st Tour win.. he had all kinds of motivation to take drugs and he had a medical/training advisor in Ferrari telling him that EPO was as dangerous at vitamin C

again my point is that the arguement you bring to the table don't hold water...

No, I think I get it fine, and didn't think I was being that obscure.

On your cigarette analogy, sure, lots of people ignore the dangers of smoking, and the fact is that the Japanese smoke like demons, and rarely get cancer.

However, anyone who has ever gotten terminal lung cancer, and had to be sliced open and have 1/2 or more of their lungs removed, and then endure chemo/radiation/drug therapy that makes you so sick that you're no longer afraid you're going to die, but more afraid that you won't. Well, if they survive all that, one thing they sure won't ever do again is smoke another cigarette, and certainly, not within a year of narrowly escaping death.

Can you tell us exactly what causes cancer? No, no one can. Very simplistically, cancer is "cells gone wild", and no one knows what actually causes this.

But when you upset the body's natural balance by introducing into it a dangerous chemical substance, such as smoking cigarettes, well?

Sequence of events, cause and effect, "which came first, the chicken or the egg?"

Now, I don't think Lance doped, but no matter what "Ferrari" says, I find it highly improbable that right after Lance escaped death, that a year later, he all of a sudden said "Gee, I think I'll now start taking performance enhancing drugs."

He started racing very young, when he was a teenager, and he was awfully young to have developed cancer. Do you see where I'm going with this?

For the sake of argument, say the eggs are dope, and the chicken is cancer.

Now, if you were to lay an egg, and ended up with a chicken, do you think you would ever lay any more eggs?

This doesn't mean I believe Lance ever doped, but if I would believe anything, I see the sequence of this scenerio as being a little more plausible. Still, not doesn't constitute anything coming anywhere close to "compelling evidence".

Last edited by Ineedhelp; 11-20-05 at 01:34 AM.
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Old 11-20-05, 01:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Avalanche325
You are obviously one of those people that think the nightly news actually knows the full story about what is going on. If you had spent any time around the intelligence community you would realize that the US has stopped at least 5 world wars from happening since about 1980.

So, I guess the same goes for the doping charges. Most people, including the press, don't have a clue about what is really going on.
I think he's referring more to "weapons of mass destruction" and while we may not know the whole story, we do know what we heard, and who we heard say it. We also know we were not told this was "speculation", but were told there was proof strong enough to warrant engaging in war.

We do not "think" this is what was said, we know, because we heard it, loud and clear, on national tv. An "error"? Well, for an "error" of that magnitude, you take responsibility, excuses don't cut it.

But I think it's very true that we'll never know the whole story, not about that, or about the doping charges.

On Euro, I don't see that much wrong with taking an "anti-drug", and "anti-war" stance.
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Old 11-20-05, 08:51 AM
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Where do you think Europe would be today without our help?
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Old 11-20-05, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelinTN
Where do you think Europe would be today without our help?
I don't know, and neither does anyone else. Too many variables involved.

Exactly my point about the racing stats, which I noticed, no one responded "on point" to the question. The reason for that is the question can't really be answered, it's all speculation.

But you know, our entire justice system is based on the highly idealistic and lofty principle that, "It is better that 100 guilty men go free, than 1 innocent person be punished."

Did Saddam need to be taken down? Maybe he did, in which case, tell the truth! Our country paid a heavy price in the way of lose of credibility by crying "wolf". The ends don't justify the means.

People generally believe what they want to believe. Everyone has their own beliefs based on their own personal experiences and agendas. I choose to believe that there is a good reason that our justice system is based on the presumption of innocence until guilt is proven beyond a reasonable doubt.

Last edited by Ineedhelp; 11-20-05 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 11-20-05, 11:17 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Doid23
then we're pretty much allowed to speculate on anything we want now, correct?
That's always been true.
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Old 11-20-05, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by MichaelinTN
Where do you think Europe would be today without our help?
If you are referring to WWII, then maybe the Soviet Union should get just a little bit of credit also.

And for everyone who is going to jumped on this thread to point out the evils of the Soviets, I am only referring to their role in defeating the Hitler and Nazis. Thank you.
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