Where do you draw the line on FULL Ultegra?
12-04-05, 12:31 PM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC CANADA
Posts: 1,049
Bikes: Trek 7300FX, Lemond Sarthe
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Where do you draw the line on FULL Ultegra?
Where do you draw the line on expressions like "full-Campy" or "full-Ultegra" that you see describing bikes? I've got Ultegra Cranks, BB, Shifters, brakes, F & R der. cassette, chain. Does that make it "Full-Ultegra"? I don't have Shimano hubs/wheels, peddles, seatpost/stem, computer.
12-04-05, 12:36 PM
#2
He drop me
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central PA
Posts: 11,664
Bikes: '03 Marin Mill Valley, '02 Eddy Merckx Corsa 0.1, '12 Giant Defy Advance, '20 Giant Revolt 1, '20 Giant Defy Advanced Pro 1, some random 6KU fixie
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked 12 Times
in
9 Posts
Yea that is full Ultegra. IMO it can be a marketing thing but after the sale who cares. The parts that matter are the derailleurs, brifters and maybe the brakes. 105 cassette is fine (talking 10s here) and I don't need to have a Shimano chain either.
But if you are saying "full ultegra" you should have the crank, brakes, cassette, chain, derailleurs and brifters for sure.
But if you are saying "full ultegra" you should have the crank, brakes, cassette, chain, derailleurs and brifters for sure.
__________________
The views expressed by this poster do not reflect the views of BikeForums.net.
The views expressed by this poster do not reflect the views of BikeForums.net.
12-04-05, 03:48 PM
#3
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 962
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I would include hubs in the description of "full Ultegra". Pedals and seatpost aren't so important to the rest of the group.
Are you writing a description of your bike to sell it? If so, I would call your bike "full Ultegra except for the hubs".
Are you writing a description of your bike to sell it? If so, I would call your bike "full Ultegra except for the hubs".
12-04-05, 03:55 PM
#4
Well, duh, Mr Obvious.
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: NIU town
Posts: 2,271
Bikes: see sig, and others
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by same time
I would include hubs in the description of "full Ultegra". Pedals and seatpost aren't so important to the rest of the group.
Are you writing a description of your bike to sell it? If so, I would call your bike "full Ultegra except for the hubs".
Are you writing a description of your bike to sell it? If so, I would call your bike "full Ultegra except for the hubs".
__________________
03 Specialized Allez CrMo-Singlespeed conversion
03 Specialized Allez CrMo-Singlespeed conversion
12-04-05, 04:03 PM
#5
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
a full gruppo is (imho)--derailleurs, shift/brake levers, calipers and usually crank and cassette
you've got MORE than "full"
if you check campy or shimano websites, they have BBs, hubs, seatposts, headsets, bottle cages, pedals, etc, etc, etc
you've got MORE than "full"
if you check campy or shimano websites, they have BBs, hubs, seatposts, headsets, bottle cages, pedals, etc, etc, etc
12-04-05, 04:06 PM
#6
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by same time
I would include hubs in the description of "full Ultegra". Pedals and seatpost aren't so important to the rest of the group.
...
...
no bikes are spec'ed with the gruppos hubs--this is plain silly
unless you bought a bike spec'ed with a shimano wheelset or handbuilt wheels, which is rare for the gruppo bikes you're describing
just ignore the above post
12-04-05, 04:09 PM
#7
59'er
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Alexandria, IN
Posts: 3,307
Bikes: LeMond Maillot Jaune, Vintage Trek 520 (1985), 1976 Schwinn Voyageur 2, Miyata 1000 (1985)
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
3 Posts
Originally Posted by Ziggurat
disregard this, he is wrong
no bikes are spec'ed with the gruppos hubs--this is plain silly
unless you bought a bike spec'ed with a shimano wheelset or handbuilt wheels, which is rare for the gruppo bikes you're describing
just ignore the above post
no bikes are spec'ed with the gruppos hubs--this is plain silly
unless you bought a bike spec'ed with a shimano wheelset or handbuilt wheels, which is rare for the gruppo bikes you're describing
just ignore the above post
12-04-05, 04:45 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 4,454
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 128 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 12 Times
in
10 Posts
Full-X generally refers to X drivetrain and shifters, not hubs, seatpost, etc. Chain is small enough to be not meaningful in this. New Ultegra chain retails for $20 or less.
__________________
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
"c" is not a unit that measures tire width
12-04-05, 05:13 PM
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Northern Ontario
Posts: 3,659
Bikes: Colnago Master XL, Bianchi Via Nirone 7, Marinoni Fango
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I'd include the drivetrain. Derailleurs, BB, Crank, cassette and Brifters. Calipers optional.
12-04-05, 05:18 PM
#11
Senior Member
You see lots of bikes advertised as full Ultegra or Chorus or whatever but then they use a FSA or Gossamer crank. I also dislike when they say full Dura Ace and use Ultegra front derailer and brake's or they say Ultegra and use 105 front and brakes.
For me I consider full group set on a pre-built bike to be brifters, derailers, brakes, Casssete and chain. I am not to worried about hubs and seaposts and such.
For me I consider full group set on a pre-built bike to be brifters, derailers, brakes, Casssete and chain. I am not to worried about hubs and seaposts and such.
__________________
BMC Roadmachine
Kona Jake the Snake
BMC Roadmachine
Kona Jake the Snake
12-04-05, 05:31 PM
#12
"Great One"
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Might as well be underwater because I make less drag than a torpedoE (no aero bars here though)
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ziggurat
disregard this, he is wrong
no bikes are spec'ed with the gruppos hubs--this is plain silly
unless you bought a bike spec'ed with a shimano wheelset or handbuilt wheels, which is rare for the gruppo bikes you're describing
just ignore the above post
no bikes are spec'ed with the gruppos hubs--this is plain silly
unless you bought a bike spec'ed with a shimano wheelset or handbuilt wheels, which is rare for the gruppo bikes you're describing
just ignore the above post
I mean seriously, could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs? (what kind of drivetrain would that be?)
12-04-05, 05:39 PM
#13
Cornucopia of Awesomeness
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: not where i used to be
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
The hubs are definitely part of the group, but this doesn't mean they come with complete bikes. Pedals, seatposts,etc are not what I would consider part of the group.
I mean seriously, could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs? (what kind of drivetrain would that be?)
I mean seriously, could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs? (what kind of drivetrain would that be?)
what hubs are going to be included in the new SRAM group.....eh?
i consider the full group to be 8 pieces
-shifters/levers
-both derailleurs
-brakes
-crank
-BB
-cassette
-chain
hubs, stem, seatpost, headset are optional
12-04-05, 06:08 PM
#14
"Great One"
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Might as well be underwater because I make less drag than a torpedoE (no aero bars here though)
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by baxtefer
yes I can.
what hubs are going to be included in the new SRAM group.....eh?
what hubs are going to be included in the new SRAM group.....eh?
p.s. where are the part's listing for this new SRAM group?
Now that being said I don't think it has to have the factory hubs to be the full group if you are speaking "loosely" about all this.
12-04-05, 06:12 PM
#15
"Great One"
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Might as well be underwater because I make less drag than a torpedoE (no aero bars here though)
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by baxtefer
i consider the full group to be 8 pieces
-shifters/levers
-both derailleurs
-brakes
-crank
-BB
-cassette
-chain
12-04-05, 06:31 PM
#16
Banned.
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 7,460
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
The hubs are definitely part of the group, but this doesn't mean they come with complete bikes. Pedals, seatposts,etc are not what I would consider part of the group.
I mean seriously, could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs? (what kind of drivetrain would that be?)
I mean seriously, could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs? (what kind of drivetrain would that be?)
he wasn't asking which components are included when gruppo mfgs make a group
sure, hubs are part of gruppo--but who considers this important for classifying a (built up) bike as "full ultegra" (or whatever)
so a bike with every ultegra component, but has ksyrium wheels is not a "full ultegra bike"--that is false advertising, in your eyes
okay
You're simply misinterpreting his original question. He isn't asking what components make up a group. He is asking what is neccessary when describing a bike as "full [gruppo here]"
12-04-05, 06:33 PM
#17
Stop it.
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Weight Weenie-land.
Posts: 1,607
Bikes: 2003 Specialized Hardrock Pro w/ slicks, flipped stem and HB, 2003 Colnago Dream with full Dura-Ace 7700 double, 2001 Bianchi XL Boron/Daytona, Mavic Open Pro/Campy Centaur/DT Champion built wheels.
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
"Full" anything must be Shifters, Brake Levers, Derailluers, Chain, Cassette, Crankset, Bottom Bracket, Brakeset, Cables, Cable Guide Plate, and maybe hubs.
12-04-05, 06:54 PM
#18
Cornucopia of Awesomeness
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: not where i used to be
Posts: 4,847
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 53-11_alltheway
The reason they might be able to do that is because they are shimano compatible? (nobody has yet to confirm this for me) The full group (drivetrain) includes the hubs. For god's sakes man you are a FG rider you should know it's part of the design of the drivetrain. OMG.
p.s. where are the part's listing for this new SRAM group?
Now that being said I don't think it has to have the factory hubs to be the full group if you are speaking "loosely" about all this.
p.s. where are the part's listing for this new SRAM group?
Now that being said I don't think it has to have the factory hubs to be the full group if you are speaking "loosely" about all this.
you asked "could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs?"
to which I answered "SRAM". since SRAM hasn't absorbed a hub manufacturer into it's consortium and none were on display at interbike, then I don't see them having a hubset as a part of their road group next year.
yes, I can imagine such things.
PS. didn't you post the interbike pictures yourself?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005.../interbike0522
SRAM will be releasing two complete groups to complement the new shifter technology. Each will consist of seven components unique to each group and will include shifters, front and rear derailleurs, cranksets, cassettes, chains, and brakes. The top-tier group is said to be Dura-Ace/Record quality, while the other is said to be more along the lines of Shimano's Ultegra.
12-04-05, 07:49 PM
#19
"Great One"
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Might as well be underwater because I make less drag than a torpedoE (no aero bars here though)
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Ziggurat
read what I said, he was wondering what is expected when the term "full [gruppo here]" is used when selling a bike.
he wasn't asking which components are included when gruppo mfgs make a group
sure, hubs are part of gruppo--but who considers this important for classifying a (built up) bike as "full ultegra" (or whatever)
so a bike with every ultegra component, but has ksyrium wheels is not a "full ultegra bike"--that is false advertising, in your eyes
okay
You're simply misinterpreting his original question. He isn't asking what components make up a group. He is asking what is neccessary when describing a bike as "full [gruppo here]"
he wasn't asking which components are included when gruppo mfgs make a group
sure, hubs are part of gruppo--but who considers this important for classifying a (built up) bike as "full ultegra" (or whatever)
so a bike with every ultegra component, but has ksyrium wheels is not a "full ultegra bike"--that is false advertising, in your eyes
okay
You're simply misinterpreting his original question. He isn't asking what components make up a group. He is asking what is neccessary when describing a bike as "full [gruppo here]"
12-04-05, 07:52 PM
#20
"Great One"
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Might as well be underwater because I make less drag than a torpedoE (no aero bars here though)
Posts: 4,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by baxtefer
huh? WTF are you talking about.
you asked "could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs?"
to which I answered "SRAM". since SRAM hasn't absorbed a hub manufacturer into it's consortium and none were on display at interbike, then I don't see them having a hubset as a part of their road group next year.
yes, I can imagine such things.
PS. didn't you post the interbike pictures yourself?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005.../interbike0522
seems like SRAM doesn't consider hubs or BBs as part of a "group" either
you asked "could you imagine a manufacturer releasing a group without the hubs?"
to which I answered "SRAM". since SRAM hasn't absorbed a hub manufacturer into it's consortium and none were on display at interbike, then I don't see them having a hubset as a part of their road group next year.
yes, I can imagine such things.
PS. didn't you post the interbike pictures yourself?
https://www.cyclingnews.com/tech/2005.../interbike0522
seems like SRAM doesn't consider hubs or BBs as part of a "group" either
Technically the only thing unique about this group are the shifters and derailleurs. This in contrast to campagnolo which uses a different cassette/rear hub.
12-05-05, 01:41 AM
#21
Blue Straggler
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Delta
Posts: 1,187
Bikes: Miele Pisasheeta, Airborne Thunderbolt
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Well, it 'used to be' that the full gruppo was the full gruppo. My tired old Miele has Shimano 600, including brakes, levers, downtube shifters, headset, hubs, both derailleurs, pedals, cranks, BB, freewheel and chain. Oh, and Biopace chainrings! I rotated those per Danno's method to make the downstroke a little more challenging on the turbo trainer. Kind of amazing they've lasted 18 years... the rear hub and pedals didn't.
The new bike has 'full Ultegra': Brakes, brifters, derailleurs, cranks, BB, cassette and chain.
The new bike has 'full Ultegra': Brakes, brifters, derailleurs, cranks, BB, cassette and chain.
__________________
Coach Bill
Coach Bill
