Jed19

I am in the process of buying a new carbon frame road bike. I am definitely thinking about a bike that can be ridden comfortably over distances of about eighty to a hundred miles at a time. I kind of like the Giant OCR and Specialized Roubaix kind of rides, but detest the OCR shape. I also hate the shape of the comparable-in-ride Trek Pilot. I just plain hate compact frames.

My question is this: Is it possible to buy the Trek Madone 5.2 or the Trek 5200, and then try to experiment with different higher-angle stems? I intend to use the different stems to try and dial-in a more relaxed ride (i.e. a higher handlebar).

Success would be a ride that approximates as closely as possible an OCR/Roubaix kind of geometry and ride, but without the compact kind of frame.

Am I dreaming here? Another benefit to what I am trying to achieve is the fact that I can use different stems to compensate for my decrease in flexibility as I get older. Up to a certain point of course.

Thanks for your comments.

Regards,

Serpico

it will look stupid

Jed19

How so? Could you please elaborate?

Regards,

Triguy

You'll start seeing the phrase "flip it". This refers to the stem not pointing up. A stem that points up doesn't look as good but for all intensive purposes works the same. Find something with a longer headtube, they're out there with out looking ridiculous. Guru's 2005 Newsteel was about 2200 with a headtube just shorter(abouta a cm) than the Giant Ocr and had just a slightly sloping top tube. Only problem is now the Newsteel is fully custom and goes for 3500.

Are you set on carbon?? Or on the 5200?? You can make the 5200 work but the stem might look a little goofy,

platypus

for some serious flexibilty, take a look at the Look ergostem. It lets you put the bars darn near anywhere you want them to be...

simplyred

You can do it...
But kinda like saying - I want to buy a Ferrari but I'm gonna take it easy..

No harm. It IS possible.. just don't cut the fork...

-simplyred

Jed19

Thanks. I went and looked at the Look Ergostem on the Web, and I really like it. Kinda expensive though ($199).

My question has not been answered though. What I really want to know is: What effect on a bike's geometry, characteristic(s) and thus rideability, does a stem have?

Can I buy the either of the Treks, put a Look ergostem or a stem that has the same measurements as the one that comes with a Specialized Roubaix on it to raise the handlebar, and not have the ride characteristic(s) seriously impacted negatively?

Regards,

Serpico

from what I understand...

if you mess with the height of the stem, you'll be fine

if you mess with the length, you'll mess up the handling

either way, it will look dumb

instead of a correct frame and stem, you'll have an incorrect frame (for your needs) and then an incorrect stem to compensate for it

good luck

AnthonyG

The differences between a TCR type and an OCR type aren't that great but there more than just the head tube height. The chainstay's are a little longer, there's often clearance for slightly larger tires, the angles are usualy just a touch more relaxed and of course the head tubes are slightly longer. Nothing wrong with using a raised stem on a Madone but there's more to it than that.

Have a look at the FUJI Roubaix. A lot like the Specialized Roubaix but it has a standard, non compact frame.

Regards, Anthony

Triguy

The hieght of the stem will not affect handling.

Jed19

Except the Fuji Roubaix is not a carbon frame bike. I would definitely prefer carbon-framed bicycles. Any suggestions?

Regards,

55/Rad

Here's a couple pictures for visual reference - same Trek carbon frame, same length stem, 2 different stem setups.

AnthonyG

OK, I've just had a quick look at Fuji and Trek's sites. The Fuji carbon race bikes AND the Roubaix's actualy have pretty much the same geometries but compared to the Treks ALL Fuji's are pretty relaxed which is a good thing actually. More like classic stage bikes than criterium bikes. The angles on the Trek Pilot aren't that relaxed at all actually.

What size roughly are you? The Fuji carbon race models look like a good option. Sizing a bike based on the top tube length on a standard frame and not worring paticuarly about standover which has too much empasis placed on it a good sizing guide would make for a comfortably riding bike.

Regards, Anthony

Jed19

Beautiful restoration by the way. I would like you to please comment on the ride characteristic(s) of both setups vis-a-vis ride comfort over distances of around 80-100 miles. I mostly ride in the hoods, and I am interested in how sore my neck or/and back could get after about 100miles of riding. Please compare the ride with the two setups i.e. using the same length and different angle stems.

By the way, how is the stiffness of your frame around the bottom bracket?

How do you like the frame in general? What would you change about the frame, if you could?

Thanks.

Regards,

Jed19

Thanks Anthony, I ride 56cm bikes. I should try and go see Fuji carbon bikes at the nearest dealership. I am definitely not looking for criterium bikes, hence my original question about tinkering with a criterium-like bike through fitting with different angle stems(same length as stem that comes with the 56cm) to arrive at a classic-stage like bicycle and/or ride.

What do you think?

Regards,

C4Byke

I'm not sure I'm getting you, you can ride 80-100 miles, are dead set on carbon fiber-but you don't know your proper frame size? From what you want the bike for, it sounds like you're serious, but then you talk about flipping the stem on a Madone? If I was buying a bike that expensive, it better fit right before I ever lay the cash down.

AnthonyG

Lucas,

Well by the time you get to a 56 cm frame then the geometries aren't too silly anymore. The Fuji's still have slightly more relaxed seat tube angle's than even the Trek Pilot. You can play around with rearset seatposts but the Fuji's would deffinitely be a better proposition for what you wan't them for. The Fuji's steerer height (EDIT: OK I meant head tube height) is in the middle of the Trek Madone and Pilot models.

Regards, Anthony

55/Rad

Frame is stiff all around, fairly light and very comfortable - definitely my long distance hauler. The lower setup does what you'd think - it stretches your lower back - meaning overall flexibility becomes a key concern. Higher means more upright, less strain on the lower back and less emphasis on flexibility.

When I originally got the bike 2+ years ago, I was just getting back into cycling and needed the higher setup. After 6 months or so, I flipped it and haven't gone back. I did have it lower for a time and found it to me too low - and ended up raising it back.

I love the frame and the paint restoration represents what I wanted to change - lose the decals and simplify the look. I added the fade to blue in the fork and rear simply to make the scheme work with the wheels - which I'd already had and dearly wanted to pair to this frame.

As for my recommendation - start higher and work your way down if you feel the need. Be careful about cutting the steerer as you can't go back. Screw what anybody says about the look - go with what is right for you. Good luck and thanks for the nice comments.

55/Rad

Downshift

You might check out the Specialized Comp-Road multi position stem. It has 3 different "insert" sleeves that adjust the angle of the stem. They come in various lengths and degrees of rise. Best part- $40. It will look funny, but if it's comfortable, you're more likely to ride. And you can lower the angle progressively as you go.

Retro Grouch 

I was all ready to start an argument with Ziggurat, but after thinking about it I've decided that he's right!

The OP's objection to the Trek Pilot, which has the frame geometry that he's looking for is esthetic. To buy a Madone and modify it with an angled stem, even if it's functionally equal, isn't likely to give him the "look" that he's after. If esthetics are a factor (and the OP stated that they are) that's too much money to spend on a bike that's likely to look goofy when it's finished.

Jed19

Please read my original post. I know exactly my frame size. I am also not talking about flipping the stem. I am interested in using different angle-sized stems to dial in a custom fit that will be extremely comfortable for the kind of rides I do, which is 80-100miles of exercise only rides on weekends.

Regards,

Jed19

Aesthetics is not the most important consideration. I was thinking about the Madone b/cos I believe the Trek Madone and 5200 are better-built bikes as compared to the Giant OCRs.

I have had extremely good luck with Treks and Cannondales I have owned, thus if I can help it, I like to stay with brands that have worked and performed brilliantly for me.

Basically, the question comes down to this: can I make the Madone or 5200 frame more lower back friendly by using a stem of same length as the original that will come with my 56cm bike, but of a higher angle.

Jed19

Thanks again Anthony. I definitely have to go take a look at the Fujis.

Regards,

C4Byke

The answer is, of course you can change the stem to make it more comfortable, but if you do change it, that means the bike wasn't the right size to begin with, which would suck after shelling out 4'gs for a madone. Go to your local bike shop, get fitted on one of those laser machines, yes they have different measuring parameters (racing, sport, leisure, and comfort) and buy the right bike. I am also questioning why you need a top of the line road racing bike if you are only riding on weekends. The geometry on the Madone is very agressive, no matter what stem you use it's never going to ride like a long distance tourer.

biker7

+1
Do what you will but putting a riser stem on a Madone will go against the grain of enthusiasts on this forum. Since you are insistent on a touring geometry...buy the right frame for touring...not an out and out racing frame. What you need is a CF Trek Pilot....if I bought a Trek what I would buy...their top of the line Pilot...but then I don't like Shimano...but love the Pilot geometry.
George