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Inexpensive replacement for Campy Mirage shifters?

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Inexpensive replacement for Campy Mirage shifters?

Old 02-06-06, 03:14 PM
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AusTai
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Inexpensive replacement for Campy Mirage shifters?

I have a 2000-ish Marin Verona with Campy Mirage components. I haven't ridden it much but enough to think that the rear derailleur shifting could be better. Maybe it isn't broken in yet (told you I didn't ride it much) but downshifting the rears is very notchy/clunky. Is that the fault of the shifter? It seems like it. Would replacing it with better shifters help?

I'm thinking of going with Shimanos because they're cheaper but I'll be open to whatever you recommend. However, the bike was only $700 so I don't want to spend too much.

Thanks
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Old 02-06-06, 03:19 PM
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One thing with Campy stuff...it DOES take awhile to break in. Unless the shifting is horribly off, I wouldn't worry about it - just ride it more - and see what happens. Mirage is a good product, I think inline with Shimano 105 stuff.

Is your r. derailleur adjusted properly? Sounds like it may be time for a quick trip to your local bike shop, have them do a check on things for ya.
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Old 02-06-06, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by AndyGrow
One thing with Campy stuff...it DOES take awhile to break in.
I remember when I offered that explanation once a while back, and was immediately scolded for it by sydney.
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Old 02-06-06, 03:30 PM
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I would lube everything and check the derailleur adjustments and cable tension. Some Campy chains are 'notchy/clunky' all the time. It's just the way they are. If the bike is low mileage most likely nothing major is wrong. Check the derailleur hanger too just in case you dropped the bike and bent it or something. The shifter 'G' springs will wear out before the derailleur. When the springs are worn, the shifts will be imprecise and will jump from gear to gear without shifting.
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Old 02-06-06, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by cydewaze
I remember when I offered that explanation once a while back, and was immediately scolded for it by sydney.
While sydney was very knowledgable, he wasn't infallible. It does take a while for the non ball bearing Campy shifters to break in. The bronze bushing works very well once it's used a little. As for Shimano, Now that they are 10 speed the price on brifters is way too high. Stick with Campy.

Tim
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Old 02-06-06, 05:02 PM
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I found it took almost 1000 miles for my Record group to finally break in. I would suggest properly tuning the shifting, then ride it for a while and work it in. The low end Campy stuff is actually nicer than the low end Shimano stuff, so going Shimano won't make it better. IMO
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Old 02-06-06, 05:08 PM
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A simple thing, but it could be the spacing on your cassette. I occasionally put a 12-25 on my Record group to visit the local mountains. I find it to shift a bit the way you described, kind of clunky from gear to gear. A straight block is much quieter, and smoother.
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Old 02-06-06, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by cydewaze
I remember when I offered that explanation once a while back, and was immediately scolded for it by sydney.
I never knew sydney, but I do know in this case he would have been wrong. Smart guy, but that doesn't mean he knew everything.

It DOES take awhile for Campy stuff to break in. Even a Campy rep will tell you that.
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Old 02-06-06, 06:03 PM
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I had a bike that originally came equipped with Campy 8sp Mirage. In contrast to my experiences with Chorus and Record equipped bikes, the Mirage component group was competent except for the Ergolevers. Unlike the other gruppos, the shifters on my setup had a one piece lever which basically was like a toggle switch. It was never precise enough to make sure clean shifts and would always be unpredictable.

I removed them and converted to downtube shifters and then finally when 9-10sp drivertrains came out, converted it to Record Ergolevers.

The only weak part in that Mirage component group was the Ergolevers.

Hopefully you don't have the same shifters. If you do, I expect you'll be waiting a long time for them to "break in"
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Old 02-07-06, 07:20 AM
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Ha! He said "Inexpensive Campy" that's funny!! :-)
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Old 02-07-06, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by cycle17
Ha! He said "Inexpensive Campy" that's funny!! :-)
You need to check your prices. 10SPD Dura Ace is more expensive than 10 Spd Record, 10 Spd Ultegra than Chorus, and 105 than Centaur.

And yes, these are part for part.


Record $1549.00

Dura Ace $2156.00

Chorus $1129.00

Ultegra $1248.00

no link for this one as I couldnt FIND the 105 yet where I could link to it.

Shimano 105-10 Double $841

Campagnolo Centaur-10 Double $718


105 shifters are actually more expensive than RECORD shifters...
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Old 02-07-06, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by mellowdave
You need to check your prices. 10SPD Dura Ace is more expensive than 10 Spd Record, 10 Spd Ultegra than Chorus, and 105 than Centaur.

And yes, these are part for part.


Record $1549.00

Dura Ace $2156.00

Chorus $1129.00

Ultegra $1248.00

no link for this one as I couldnt FIND the 105 yet where I could link to it.

Shimano 105-10 Double $841

Campagnolo Centaur-10 Double $718


105 shifters are actually more expensive than RECORD shifters...
The problem here is that you are comparing on-line discounted Campy prices with Shimano list prices. If you compare list prices you'll see that Campy gruppos are a little more expensive.
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Old 02-07-06, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by fmw
The problem here is that you are comparing on-line discounted Campy prices with Shimano list prices. If you compare list prices you'll see that Campy gruppos are a little more expensive.

Dude really. Who pays list? I mean if you are, drive on. More power to you. All that matters is street value. Theoretically my Land Rover is worth over 30k, but with Gas prices right now, I'd be lucky to get 20. So the theoretical prices have no bearing.
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Old 02-07-06, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by mellowdave
You need to check your prices. 10SPD Dura Ace is more expensive than 10 Spd Record, 10 Spd Ultegra than Chorus, and 105 than Centaur.

And yes, these are part for part.


Record $1549.00

Dura Ace $2156.00

Chorus $1129.00

Ultegra $1248.00

no link for this one as I couldnt FIND the 105 yet where I could link to it.

Shimano 105-10 Double $841

Campagnolo Centaur-10 Double $718


105 shifters are actually more expensive than RECORD shifters...
OMG! I knew I shouldn't have posted on a Campy based thread! It was a joke!! A joke! Geeesh!!! {Shakes head}
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Old 02-07-06, 09:22 AM
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I'm going to have to trust the advice about breaking in the bike because the cost of replacing a few components is much higher than I expected. There's probably less than 200 miles on the bike and thus it's probably not broken in yet.

About the questions on tuning the rear derailleur, I've adjusted it as well as I can so that it doesn't slip or skip gears but that's about all the adjustment that looks possible. Nothing is visible for adjusting the notchiness of the shift levers. It's the thumb-controlled downshift lever that's problematic, by the way, not the larger upshift lever next to the brake lever.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions.
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Old 02-07-06, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mellowdave
Dude really. Who pays list? I mean if you are, drive on. More power to you. All that matters is street value. Theoretically my Land Rover is worth over 30k, but with Gas prices right now, I'd be lucky to get 20. So the theoretical prices have no bearing.
Apparently you do, if you pay those Shimano prices.
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Old 02-07-06, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by fmw
Apparently you do, if you pay those Shimano prices.
Those arent list my man, thats the cheapest I found them both.
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Old 02-07-06, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by AusTai
I'm going to have to trust the advice about breaking in the bike because the cost of replacing a few components is much higher than I expected. There's probably less than 200 miles on the bike and thus it's probably not broken in yet.

About the questions on tuning the rear derailleur, I've adjusted it as well as I can so that it doesn't slip or skip gears but that's about all the adjustment that looks possible. Nothing is visible for adjusting the notchiness of the shift levers. It's the thumb-controlled downshift lever that's problematic, by the way, not the larger upshift lever next to the brake lever.

Anyway, thanks for all the suggestions.
I have Record with 5000 miles on it, and Centaur with maybe 1500, and I suppose that you could consider the thumb shifter notchy...in that it has detents to let you know about each shift. Shimano does this as well. I dont know about the "break in thing" my Cantaur shifted beautifully from day one, and the Veloce I just put on the cross bike is completely sweet, though I havent ridden it more than around the block.

Good luck.
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Old 02-07-06, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by AusTai
I have a 2000-ish Marin Verona with Campy Mirage components. I haven't ridden it much but enough to think that the rear derailleur shifting could be better. Maybe it isn't broken in yet (told you I didn't ride it much) but downshifting the rears is very notchy/clunky. Is that the fault of the shifter? It seems like it. Would replacing it with better shifters help?

I'm thinking of going with Shimanos because they're cheaper but I'll be open to whatever you recommend. However, the bike was only $700 so I don't want to spend too much.

Thanks
Is this a problem that has recently developed? Keep in mind that a Campagnolo drivetrain tends to be more "solid" (read loud/determined) when shifting. Not a bad thing at all, but Shimano is much quieter in that regard.

BTW I've ridden both Shimano and Campy and currently have a Ultegra drivetrain with Centaur brifters so I'm not knocking Campy at all, the two systems just have a different feel is all.
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Old 02-07-06, 10:35 AM
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Mirage takes FOREVER to break in. And it will ALWAYS be notchy and clunky. So what?

The only improvement you can make on it is to get higher priced Campy stuff and the only real difference is that it operates a little smoother.

Shimano stuff is fine if you're willing to put up with replacing it every couple of years as it breaks down.

Personally I have a set of 1998 Mirage levers on my Colnago Super and they're still operating as well as I need them to.
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Old 02-07-06, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by cyclintom
Mirage takes FOREVER to break in. And it will ALWAYS be notchy and clunky. So what?

The only improvement you can make on it is to get higher priced Campy stuff and the only real difference is that it operates a little smoother.

Shimano stuff is fine if you're willing to put up with replacing it every couple of years as it breaks down.

Personally I have a set of 1998 Mirage levers on my Colnago Super and they're still operating as well as I need them to.
Your experience with 1998 Mirage Ergos does not match my experience with 2005 Mirage Ergos. They required a break-in period (just as my Record Ergos did) but since then they have performed flawlessly. The differences between the guts of a Mirage Ergo and a Record Ergo are minuscule as far as shifting performance is concerned.
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Old 02-07-06, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by daneil
Is this a problem that has recently developed? Keep in mind that a Campagnolo drivetrain tends to be more "solid" (read loud/determined) when shifting. Not a bad thing at all, but Shimano is much quieter in that regard.

BTW I've ridden both Shimano and Campy and currently have a Ultegra drivetrain with Centaur brifters so I'm not knocking Campy at all, the two systems just have a different feel is all.
I think it has been a "problem" all along, but as others and you have said, it may just be the way Campy Mirages feel. Being more used to mtn bikes and not having ridden my road bike for a while, I forgot that the downshift lever required a bit more effort than on the mtn bike.
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Old 02-07-06, 12:06 PM
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If you move the shift lever one click or indent, and the gear shifts one cog and once the shift is done the chain does not rattle or skip, than the shifter has done it's job and your index adjustment is good. Loudness does not count for anything.

If it wants to shift but wont quite make the shift and you have to nudge the shifter again to complete the shift, or it shifts and then the chain rattles it's an index adjustment issue cured by loosening or tightening the amount of cable tension using the barrel adjuster.

If it wants to shift off or won't get on the larges or smallest cog, its a shift stop adjustment (high/low adjustment) on the derailleur. Shifting off the largest cog under load will ruin your wheels or your derailleur or both.

When the 'g' springs start to get tired, the shifts will be less precise - you will shift 2 stops when you want one, or you won't hear or feel the shift or it won't stay in one gear. That is because the 'g' springs have lost some 'spring' and won't lock into the ratchet indents like they did when they were new.
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Old 02-07-06, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by galen_52657
If you move the shift lever one click or indent, and the gear shifts one cog and once the shift is done the chain does not rattle or skip, than the shifter has done it's job and your index adjustment is good. Loudness does not count for anything.
I never complained about loudness but rather the shifting being notchy/clunky. The thumb-downshifter feels like I'm going to break something with the amount of force needed, plus it's uneven in the amount of force needed depending on the gear.
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Old 02-07-06, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AusTai
I never complained about loudness but rather the shifting being notchy/clunky. The thumb-downshifter feels like I'm going to break something with the amount of force needed, plus it's uneven in the amount of force needed depending on the gear.
OK... this could be another issue.

Roll back the hood cover and make sure there is no bar tape on the ERGO lever housing. Absolutely none. With ERGO's you don't wrap the tape around the lever housing at all or it can interfere with the shift lever and cause your shifting symptom.

If that's not it than it may be a lubrication issue if the bike has been sitting or out in the weather or both. You need to use very light grease to lube the shifter. If you have a grease injector made for bicycles (with the long thin snout that fits in tight places) you can pull back the hoods and inject a little grease onto the shift ratchet under the thumb lever or where the shift cable attaches. A little grease on the ratchet intents should smooth the shifting. Otherwise, you will have to disassemble the levers and grease them and check for a bent thumb shift lever or other problem.
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