rufvelo

Is poor LBS sales technique more responsible for declining their business or should we just blame industry giants?

I haven't really shopped for bikes in a store in a very long time. So recently just tried a total newbie approach in a few stores. Walked in and said I'm unsure about which bike, and wasn't sure if I needed to spend $500 or $1500 for a bike with current technology.

Interestingly enough in 4 out of 5 tries I got the same increasingly predictable response. I was shown bikes in the $1400 to the $1600 range, with the $2000 item that was considered 'most desirable'. Almost always I was led to the last year's sales closeouts.

Disappointingly in only 1 store I was actually asked about my fitness goals, current and past cycling experience and tested for my bike knowledge to see it I was a gadget guy and would get quickly bored with a mediocre entry level bike.

I digress a bit here, but this probably also explains why a guy in my subdivision has a $5000 Merlin, when all I see him do is the occassional ride with his kid on her little bike in the sub. Well that and the 2 Hummer's in the garage. Well if he wants to spend the bucks, sure why not, it keeps the economy going. But I wonder if he would have been better served with a 'try this Trek 1000 - in fact we have last years model for for $550'

Matt Gaunt

I don't think you can generalise that all bike shops will take the approach mentioned here. I know my LBS are very conscious of their sales technique, matching the bike to the customer's needs, not matching the customer to what need to be got rid of.

However, it is disappointing that money matters so much to the guys you spoke to that they think nothing of ripping a guy off just to clear their old stock.

Jakey

It differs from shop to shop, but I have noticed that in some stores... especially the Trek store here in town... even if you go in and look at one of the other brands they carry, they will push you towards the trek. I think alot of it has to do with the requirements that the companies put on shops to push their products. I know trek requires something like 85% of all shop floor space be devoted to trek products if you want to sell them. I have also noticed this at the Giant shop in town.

I like going to the smaller shops that sell smaller brands, like the store that sells torelli down here, he's straight up, and will be honest if he thinks someone else may have a better bike for you. I was going to buy a rain jacket from him, and he actually told me that another shop in town has a better one. If you live in a rainy area....take a long hard look at showers pass jackets btw.

snowyfox

MY lbs was very helpful when i went in, they carried alot of different bikes from trek, giant specialied, and they asked what I wanted to do with it etc. Very pleased, i also am dropping 1300 there on a new road bike and accessories, so i am pleased

SteelCommuter

The one thing that irritates me is when LBS employees (and owners, too) make comments that are plain incorrect. I overheard a shop owner telling a customer the difference between one bike and a more expensive model. One was aluminum with carbon bits, one was all carbon. Not my thing, but I know some basic things about them. He asserted that the more expensive bike was lighter. He asked me if I needed anything (since I was patiently waiting until he was finished). I asked him if he had something, he didn't. I asked him the weight of the aluminum frame and carbon frame politely. He said the carbon was about 2.5 pounds, and the aluminum was 3 more pounds. I didn't say anything, but that was just BS. By that account, that aluminum $1500 lightweight road bike had the same frame weight as my loaded touring steel bike - which I strongly doubt. I didn't want to look like a jerk, or maybe I just am ignorant, so I didn't say anything. I did ask, "do you mean the frame, or the whole bike?" He answered, "the frame."

Now, this was the owner, and he was blatantly lying or ignorant of his stock. I felt bad for the customer, but I didn't think it would be appropriate of me to butt in further, and I didn't. Was I mistaken? I don't know, but I thought that was poor sales ethics.

baj32161

And the sad thing is that this may be more prevalent than we think. However the shop where I bought my bike is a franchise operation that I would think would lean to those practices. When I went in to purchase my bike I already had a very good idea as to what it was that I wanted. They showed me the bike. let me test ride it, and didn't even get into the sales aspect until after I got back from my ride. It was then that I was asked what my goals were, did I think I would want to upgrade later, etc, etc. I told them I wasn't sure but was open minded about it. THAT is when they went to the closeout room (the back) and brought out a 2004 LeMond Tourmalet as opposed to the '05 LeMond Etape I was about to purchase. They let me take that out for a test ride and I came back and told them I would take it. The shifting with 105/Ultegra was just so much nicer than the Sora/Tiagra (which I thought was terrific too). I was offered a terrific price on the '04 and walked out with it and felt as if I had been treated very well. I have also seen these guys dealing with complete newbies and have always been impressed with their sales tactics. It is, indded, a pleasure to know that you are a customer at a shop that is a class act.

Cheers,

Brian

GuitarWizard

Just to play devils advocate though......the amount of stuff you can read and learn about online is amazing, and anyone who is serious about doing things - whether it be getting into cycling, running, skydiving, climbing mountains, etc. - can be fairly well-versed in having a general idea of what they want/need before even stepping foot into a store. That's not to say everyone will be an expert in a week, but they would be FAR better off than going in blind and not knowing the difference between a $500 bike and a $5,000 bike.

The problem is, a lot of people aren't that serious, don't really care that much, don't have the brainpower to figure anything out, or are just plain lazy.

Nobody ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public. Well, except for maybe bike shops....

TheKillerPenguin

There are bad shops, and there are good shops. The one I currently frequent does all he can to save me money.

baj32161

+1...just like in every other business, I'd say.

baj32161

So true, which is why I was a member here in BF for 5 weeks, and asked a zillion questions before I bought my bike (I am sure many newbies also did this). I had more than a pretty good idea of what I wanted and what I was going to have to spend to get it when the time came.

Cheers,

Brian

cslone

I was in two shops yesterday, the one I frequent and one that I have been into once before. The one I frequent had a guy, about 28-30 years old, who wanted to spend $3K on a bike "to ride with his kids and do an occasional race on". This guy had no prior experience. $3K is what he was told would get him a good bike by his friends and anything under that was junk for his needs. The LBS employee proceeded to show him 3K bikes and slowly worked down to the $600 OCR's. Then he had him test ride the $600 OCR 3 and the Full carbon Fuji Team. The guy couldn't tell the difference, so the LBS employee explained what the differences were. The guy walked out with a TCR Alloy and probably an extra 1500 in his pocket. To me, that's service. They could have easily just sold him the full carbon bike, but they knew he wouldn't be happy with it and it wouldn't fit his needs.

The other store I went to, there was a guy who was about 35 years old, maybe 50-75 lbs overweight andwas looking to lose weight. He has "no plans on racing", direct from his mouth. The first bike they steered him to was a Trek Madone. The guy balked at the price and the first words out of the employees mouth were, "BUT THIS BIKE WAS RIDDEN IN THE TDF!" I about lost it. I was on my way out, but decided to stay and watch. So they go down the isle until something pops into the guys range, a Trek 1500. The guy takes it out and rides it and says that it's not real comfortable. They tell him that race bikes aren't comfortable for the first while and he'll get used to it. The guy says he'll think about it and they give him the guilt trip. I ended up stopping the guy in the parking lot and talking to him about what he wants. He wants to be able to go to the bike path and ride for leisure. I called the first bike shop in this story and told him this guy would be over in a little bit. I called them this morning and they said the guy walked in and bought a Giant FCR 1 and seemed like he couldn't be happier. The guy passed a "Thanks for everything." message on to me through the LBS employee.

baj32161

That was very cool of you. I am glad the guy you sent there had the wherewtihall to send you a thank you. How long has that "other" shop been in business? I sure wouldn't buy from a shop like that.

Cheers,

Brian

k4st

Wow.... Well you guys got me kinda nervous about the purchase I am about to make. I thought my LBS was being quite helpfull but now I dont know. I'm 21 years old and kind of a competetive type of guy. I was originally going to just get into cycling for excercise but after test riding a few bikes im thinking i might want to race too. When I thought i was just going to get some excercise my LBS steered me towards the treck 1000 and the felt F90. But now that Ive decided on maybe competing they put all kinds of bikes infront of me. The bike that felt the best to me was the felt F65 but it is just a hair out of my price range. They didnt have the F75 in stock but they said it would feel almost identical to the F65. I pretty much decided to go with the F75 but now i kinda want a little confirmation. Im 5'8 135 lbs. The owner said I would probably not want a compact crank (which is what the F75 comes with) and he offered to switch it out with normal FSA crank of equal value. I dont think they are trying to screw me by any means but now I'm a little curious as to how good their knowledge of matching people to bikes is. Any thoughts or suggestions would be great. (sorry not trying to hijack this thread)

https://www.feltracing.com/06/06_bikes/f75/spec.html - theres the bike if want to look at it

cslone

Yeah, it made me feel appreciated. The other shop has been in business as long as I can remember. I'm only 25 though, so that's not too long. I can remember driving by it when I was 10 or so, so at least 15 years.

cslone

The 65 and 75 look like the same frame with different components. That being said, I think the 75 would be a great first race bike. It has an Ultegra rear deraileur, which is what you want because it does all the work. Many people go with a lower level front dearailleur becasue there is nothing to them. The shifters really shouldn't make too much difference right now anyway. They are entry level race shifters, which is what you are doing. In 2-3 years when you have some good miles under your belt, you'll know what you want in a bike and can buy new or upgrade from there.


Then you'll switch to Campy and realize what you were missing all along.

Seriously though, I would go ahead with the F75 if you are comfortable with the purchase and trust your bike shop guys.

Exeye

poor service from trek stores is my experience...
i've been into trek 3 times, two different shops. i dont know if its their thing but no one even acknowledged me until i had been there for a good 10 minutes. thats a long ass time. it was a little busy but there were still 'Trekkers' sittin' about, laughin' it up while focus on one section of the store...after about 12 minutes i just walked out. this has happened to me on more than one occasion. its a shame because i knew what i wanted i just wanted to ride it or maybe buy. i dont really look the part of cyclist, so i wonder if that anything to do with it...it really shouldn't have though...

another bike store, i wanted to run by, during lunch, to see if they had anything suitable(pilot series)...its probably 2pm on a weekday. i go in there like "hey do you guys have pilots?".."Which one?"... "2.1"..."yeah we got a couple, what size?"..."63". So the guy walks around lookin at stock..."are you familiar with the price point of these?" ..."yes"...and the next question he asks me is not anything even bike related..."so how long have you been at your job?"....?!?!?!! if you understand why that (sales) question is asked you'll understand why i immediately walked out...

anyway moral of the story...i ordered a Roubaix Elite...from a most helpful LBS, i'm probably not getting the deal that i could. but they had the best customer service.....that matters more to me than a "Red Tag Sale".

cslone

I never thought about that. I have walked out of three different bike shops for terrible service. All three were Trek dealers. Coincidence?

Exeye

ironically...when i was at the trek store, one of the trekkers was gushing about their own customer service to some lady who just spent a bunch of money. maybe i gotta buy a Madone to get some love?

aussie troy

I had a great experience with my LBS when brought my bike. I was a complete newbie and didn't know much. Went to a few shops and really liked the Orbea bikes I saw. Spoke to the guys at the LBS. They showed me all the bikes, let me ride them. Showed me the ones that were on special ( which they were trying to get rid of). They measured me up and let me try a few bikes so I knew what size I was after. The year models were about to change and in a weeks time a large bike trade show was being held. The salesman suggested I go to the show, look at every manufacturers bikes and see what bike I liked. If they were able they would then order any bike that I liked.

Went to the show and saw the 2006 model Orbeas. Absolutely fell in love with the black and silver Udana model. Aluminium with carbon fork, stays and seatpost. So back to the LBS. They hadn't even seen that model yet but were able to order one in for me. Within a week my new bike arrived. They let me test ride and fit it all around me. They charged full price for the bike which is fair considering they ordered it in just for me but only charged me half price for shoes, pedals, and other stuff I brought.

Overall ended up with a great bike that I love and the whole experience was great. That LBS always treats me well and everyone there knows my name. They will continue to get my business as they offer great service. They helped me a great deal and got me on the best bike for me, not the one they wanted to sell. Can't ask for more than that from any shop.

H1449-6

...which is why there is no excuse for a shop employee not to have a grasp of at least the basic features of his/her product.

I worked in shops for six years or so in the early 90s and I was a top salesperson because I knew what I was talking about, and I took the time to educate the consumer and match a bike to their needs.

Recently, I've run into very few folks who have any idea what they're selling.

SteelCommuter

Did you try any other bikes besides Trek and Felt? Nothing wrong with those necessarily, but that is a small pool. Have you been riding for a while? I think racing is cool, but I would get into some riding first before dropping coin on a race bike.

What made you think of competing? Just curious.

SteelCommuter

I agree, and it's alarming. I'm not even that mechanically inclined, nor am I as good with fixing bikes as many shop people, but those same people often know very little other than their three or four things. I know they are not paid much, so my expectations shouldn't be too high, but I had always thought they would be as interested in bike culture as I am, look on-line, that sort of thing. It's uncommon, at least in certain areas.

GuitarWizard

I wasn't talking about shop employees.....but now that you mention it....

After I bought my 5200 at my LBS, I brought a friend of mine there to check out some bikes, and the guy working there seemed to know a little bit about bikes, but wasn't exactly a fountain of knowledge, so to speak. The only one I've really dealt with there is the owner, who happened to be out that day. Back in the 80's/90's, I noticed that there seemed to be more people working in shops who had a clue as to what was going on around them. Now, it seems as though they pull in the cheapest help they can find, and as long as they know that a bicycle has two wheels, they're hired.

It's much the same way with cars.....most salesmen have no clue about the car (or cars in general), other than what the brochure in front of them says. If it's a used car that's a few years old....forget it. Chances are you know more about the car than they do.

k4st

No. Treks and Felts are the only bikes I have tried. The only other bikes my LBS carries are cannondales and giants but they just dont seem to bring as much bang for the buck. I'm also kind of a gadget guy... I like to have the newest and best technology but with my budget the felt F75 is about as good as it gets, I think...

I grew up competing in just about every sport you can think of. I love the rush of battling it out but Im not one of those guys that has to win. I dont care if get the crap beat out of me as long as I'm competing and having fun. My life has just reached a new high on the boring scale and I decided I would try mixing it up a little with some competetive (and non-competetive) cycling.

Snicklefritz

Like someone said, there are good ones and bad ones just like in any business. I'm very surprised though at how many supposedly "top" bike dealers try to fit the bike to the person instead of the other way around. I called a LBS in my neighborhood to inquire whether they did bike fittings or not. They replied that they did for a set fee which would be refunded if I bought a bike from them. Fair enough. When I went in a few days later and inquired about doing a fit, they said they really don't do fittings on the size cycle, only if someone is buying a Serotta. When I mentioned that I had called a few days before and was told that they did do bike fitting for a fee, the response was "we can take any bike in this shop and change it around to fit you once you determine which ride you like best". The employee didn't have any response when I said that I really wanted to find out what geometry would work best for me so I would have a better idea which bikes to look at.

I suppose I could have talked to the owner, but fortunately there are a lot of shops in my area. Needless to say, I took my money elsewhere. I ended up buying from a shop that not only did a bike fitting but even talked to the product developers at the company that manufactured the bike I eventually bought. There had been some questions as to which size would be more appropriate so we went back and forth a few times on it. They really put 110% into the sale so that is why they got my business. I'm very happy with the new bike.