SDRider

Well, as some of you know, I got rid of my Felt F65 (Shimano Ultegra/Dura-Ace) and I'm now riding on a LOOK KG461 with full Campagnolo Chorus/Record. I've put a couple hundred miles on the Campy stuff now so I thought I'd post an update.

The Campy shifting takes a bit of getting used to. Just thrusting the lever over doesn't necessarily give the same results every time. If you push the lever over far and hold it just a bit it might shift up two or three or more gears. If you don't push it far enough the chain might go up one gear and then go right back when you release it. There is a definite feel to Campy stuff that you have to learn and once you've learned it, it feels great. The Campagnolo shifting is very crisp and quick, I never had a problem with the shifting on the Ultegra stuff but I think the Chorus brifters/Record derailleurs I'm running now are better once you get used to it.

The jumping down or up 2 gears with a slightly longer push on the lever is nice. I don't find myself going more than one or two cogs on the rear now but it's still nice to be able to do that with one movement rather than two. I also like the fact that the shift levers move in the same direction as the derailleur and the thumb levers do the opposite. It's very intuitive and once you unlearn the Shimano way it is second nature.

I really love all the micro adjusting you can do with the front derailleur with Campy. Nothing Shimano makes comes close. Granted I'm riding a double but there were times when I'd find myself annoyed by the noises from my Shimano drivetrain that the one click adjustment provided by the Ultegra brifters just wouldn't cure. Some minor tweaks off the bike would cure this but that's small consolation during a ride.

That said, I prefer the size of the hoods of the Shimano brifters. They definitely offer more places to put your hands. People with small hands would definitely prefer Campagnolo but being that I have average sized hands I actually prefer the size of the Shimano brifters.

Also, Shimano brakes offer more initial bite than Campy and possibly less force required to clamp down on the rims but now that I've gotten used to the Campagnolo brakes I don't really think there is any difference. Having ridden and gotten used to Dura-Ace brakes I just needed to get used to the Chorus brakes I'm riding now. Honestly, I could lock up either one with little effort. They are just different.

I really like the fact that all the cables route under the bar tape with the Campy stuff. This looks so much cleaner IMHO but I wouldn't buy a bike based on that alone.

Anyway, I'm really pleased with my decision to go with Campy. I'd be happy with Shimano and I was happy with it but I don't feel that I've lost anything by going to Campagnolo. If anything, I've gained quite a bit of bling and personal satisfaction that I'm riding some top quality gear made by a company with a long history of cycling. Longer than Shimano anyway.

cuda2k

Great write up. I'm still on downtube shifters on both of my bikes, but after I graduate next summer I plan to get the Gazelle painted and a full Campy 10speed group on it. The more I hear about the Campy group and how it works, the more I like it. I most certainly like the clean look of the cable routing as well. One of the major strikes against Shimano in my opinion. Though I can see your point about the Shimano brifters. I haven't used them but a couple short spins around the block on friend's bikes. Luckily I'm also a fan of the Campy design, my current brake levers are knock offs of the campy look so the transition should be fairly smooth when I make it.

simplyred

Good review. Thanks..

But I'm still Shimano lover for life

-simplyred

CPcyclist

Nice to see a honest comparison of the two groups. I share a lot of your opinions on the differences between the two.

A question on the brakes you have are they the double pivot or single rear/double front I have felt a difference in the two versions of chorus brakes.

Tequila Joe

Thankyou for the honest, un-biased review. As a former Campy user, I share your opinions and wouldn't change a word if I wrote it myself..

One thing that most folks don't know is that Shimano has a longer history manufacturing bicycle components than Campagnolo. Shimano 1921 and Campy 1933.
https://www.campagnolo.com/history.php
https://corporate.shimano.com/publish...y_history.html

History doesn't matter. Both companies make outstanding gear and it is all a matter of prefernce.

T.J.

sportbiker

I have the Centaur (10) group and my shifting doesn't have the wooliness that you experience. Let me adjust that slightly: when I took delivery of it the shifting was quick and decisive: one click = one rear cog. Now that I have a few hundred miles on the bike the cables are stretching so I have to get them adjusted and I am indeed experiencing sloppy shifting. I'm sure that adjusting the FD and RD for the stretch will return the shifting to Day-1 crispness. Could cable stretch be affecting your shifting quality, too?

SDRider

I wouldn't call the shifting wooliness (if I understand that term correctly). I'd say it's just a matter of getting used to it. Really, it's quite precise once you get used to the feel of how the Campy shifters work. There is a bit of a learning curve that isn't there with the Shimano but I think once you get it down it is more rewarding and if you have to up or drop down two gears the Campy shifting wins hands down. My .02.

blandin

I second/third/forth the compliment on the objective review. Nicely done.

lotek 

At a couple of hundred miles the campy stuff is just breaking in
and smoothing out, my experience is that it will get even better.
Nice review.
marty

nitropowered

My friend has Record on his bike but I find shifting up to a bigger cog is a lot harder with the Record. I find with Shimano, shifting up is nice and smooth and you can go up 2-3 gears easily. However, I do like how on Campy you can drop the whole cassette with one motion, though I do question why one would want to drop from the 25 to the 12 at once. I haven't done any long rides with Campy since my friend is quite obsessive over his Saeco replica cannondale, so I can't comment on the hood shapes.

bluecd

couple instances on the rear cassette drop. i ride in some extreme rolling terrain when im in 39/25 going up & when i crest and go down it would be nice to drop to 12 in one quick motion. another would be to remove the rear wheel to repair a flat. only 2 i can think of.

Tequila Joe

This is the one thing I really disliked about Campy. The ergonomics of the Thumbies. On the hoods, I had to move my hands back to shift them. In the drops, it was difficult, although possible w/ effort, to reach up to shift the Thumbies. The Shimano system is so much more ergonomic/easier from the hoods & drops.

T.J.

Spacey

I guess handlebars and hand size might make a difference but on my bike I can shift up or down from either the hoods or the drops. The hardest shift for me is the thumb shifter from the hoods. I have to contort my thumb a little to hit the thumb shifter without moving my hands on the hoods. The other option is to move my hand back an inch, then there is no problem.

The best thing about the multiple shifting is when you are starting up a hill in the big chainring. Push down on both thumb shifters at the same time (with 3 or 4 clicks on the rear shifter) and you are in a similar gear but on the small chainring. Super simple and fast! The same thing can be done when going from the small chainring to the big. Shift the rear 3 clicks or so while shifting onto the big chainring and the resulting gear is perfect.

ViperZ

Good write up.

I really like my Dura Ace 9 system, as such I can't wait to see how the New Campy will compare.

bluecd

this is good info. one question for you, what size hands do you have? reading the earlier post got me wondering about large or small hands and the comfort of the shifting in the different bar positions. i wear XL gloves. just holding the record shifters in my hands off the bike, i can see how using the thumb shifter while on the hoods is a little contorted.

askrom

You and I are in *exactly* the same situation... I have downtube shifters and Cane Creek brake levers now. But my new Campy stuff is in the mail today! Wheeee!!

-Cf

ViperZ

And I want to build another bike that will have Downtube shifters

I have the old Dura Ace 7201 (Full Gruppo) that I want to build a classic 80's steel bike with.

gcasillo

Thing about the thumb shifters is that I think most people install their shifters too high on their bars. This makes the thumb shifter and index paddle more accessible when on the top of the bars and on the hoods. When I installed my Centaur group on my Bianchi Giro, I decided to experiment and tilt the ergo bars down such that the bottom of the drops were parallel with the ground. The shifters were installed slightly lower on the bars in order to get the bottom of the brake lever level with the bottom of the handlebar drops. This makes the hoods a little more of a reach, but they're not uncomfortable where they are at. Bonus? The drops are super comfortable to me now, the thumb shifter and index paddle are very accessible, and I am spending more and more time in the drops.

Folks should try putting the shifters lower on the bars, and if you have ergo (or even classic bend bars) handlebars, try tilting them down more so that they're more level to the ground.

SDRider

I wear a size large glove and I do not have to contort my hands at all to use the thumb shifter. I'm on the hoods 75-80% of the time and I'm in the drops or on the flat part of the bar the rest of the time.

Tequila Joe

So, honesty, which system do you find easier to shift to a smaller cog? Campy's Thumbies or Shimano's Finger Paddle from both the hoods and drops?

I also found that I had to loosen my grip to contort my thumb to shift the Thumbies. IMO, this is not good in tight manovers.

nitropowered

Again with playing around with my friend's bike, I can easily hit the thumb paddle from the drops easily. But it could also be that I have long fingers.

I honestly don't know why people get worked up about having to click a few times on the shimano paddle to go down a few cogs. I personally dont think "Oh no, I have to move my finger again and waste .001 watts of power to shift"

bluecd

yesterday i did a 40 mile shakedown ride with my new record grouppo and here are my findings.

the first thing i noticed is that it is quiet while pedalling. my ultegra was quiet and i wasnt sure if the record would be the same, so that was nice. visually the lack of cables hanging off the front is appealing.

i found that the brake levers arent as "mushy" as the ultegra brake levers. i liken it to a firm clutch pedal on a car compared to a soft clutch pedal. they are quicker to react, quieter, & seem to have more clamping force in a shorter throw than my ultegras but do required a firmer grip.

the shift levers/buttons do require a bit of a learning curve or relearning but i expected this.

the front derailleur shifter lever feels pretty much the same as the ultegras but the trim is better as you have at least 4 trim positions compared to the one trim position with the ultegras.

the thumb button shifter for the front derailleur is much better than the ultegra. it feels more like a downtube shifter in the way it doesnt suddenly unload when shifting from the 53 to the 39 like the ultegra does. you can still feel the 4 detents for the trim feature but one complete push moves the chain down without the loud spring loaded snap of the ultegra.

the rear derailler shifters feel great. at first i was too heavy handed with the lever & the button when shifting and jumped 2-3 gears instead of one. this is because the record requires much less throw than the ultegras. one click=one gear, 2 clicks=2 gears, 3 clicks=3 gears. you can feel the detents but they are close & soft. again with the car analogy, the record feels like a short throw shifter compared to a long throw shifter. it only takes a quick poke on the lever/button to shift one gear and the derailleur shifts instantaniously. going up the cassette or down the cassette the rear derailleur is very quick & quiet. overall it took about five miles to change my shifting technique from long full movements to short quick movements.

the hoods felt great in my extra large hands. more comfortable than the ultegras. the records arent as concave as the ultegras & the slight hump felt better in the palm of my hand. this is a slight difference but noticable. plus the shorter rise of the hood lever tops allowed me to rest my thumbs on top of them and not get cramps in the butt of my thumbs.

i have to slightly lift my thumbs to press the thumb buttons but its quick and easy. i can easily reach the thumb buttons from the drops and with a good hood fitting, short fingered people should also be able to.

towards the end of the ride it felt pretty much second nature but i still need to erase shimano memory as i used the wrong lever to shift gears a few times and had to correct. that will come with a little more time in the saddle.

i liked my ultagras but i have to say that the campy feels a little more refined and makes you feel a little more in tune with your bike workings.