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Originally Posted by cydewaze
So what's worse? The people who 'flip it' because it's a popular idea, or the people who buy a race bike with a short head tube and add a high-rise stem and 4cm of spacers when what they really needed was a comfort bike?...
There is a very specific reason for both drop bar shape and placement well below the seat height! It is the only thing, helping with aero and some forward weight transfer, that will get you to certain performance AND endurance levels at the same time. I'm the first to recommend to so many people that all they really need is a flat-bar hybrid with decent components, 28-32 tires and lots of quality riding time. ALways baffles me when a complete newbie comes home with a $1800 'I preferred this one from my test rides' Ultegra equipped 23c tired bike with the bar and hoods 3 inches above the seat, pointing at the sky! Sure my road bike bars are 4 inches below seat for performance reasons, but I do own a flat-bar hybrid and put around 2K VERY ENJOYABLE miles on it last year. |
Originally Posted by cydewaze
So what's worse? The people who 'flip it' because it's a popular idea, or the people who buy a race bike with a short head tube and add a high-rise stem and 4cm of spacers when what they really needed was a comfort bike?
Either way, it's an image-driven choice. |
Originally Posted by farrellcollie
I bought a road bike and added a stem riser - it was not an image driven choice - it was because I wanted to ease into a new bike position and learn to use clipless pedals and drops without causing back or wrist pain. the bike feels faster to me, is more fun to ride, and will be used for longer road rides with friends who have ridden road bikes for year
Originally Posted by farrellcollie
just don't assume it is for image
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Originally Posted by farrellcollie
what difference does it make to you if I put a riser on or not?
While there's been no hard facts to suggest that they're dangerous, the simple fact is, you're creating forces that torque the headtube and welds that designers/builders don't build for. Will it fail? Unlikely, but why take long-term chances on it? I wouldn't dare use any extension type item on carbon or aluminum bikes. You typically don't get a failure warning with CF/AL, it just goes critical in a heartbeat. But if you find you prefer a more upright position, you might very well have longer legs than the average person and should consider a custom build for your next ride. Besides, anyone who's got handlebars low enough to pleasure himself orally is either a student of yoga who's learned who to stay aerobic in that position or a rider who doesn't realize he's robbing himself by decreasing his lung capacity. |
Originally Posted by cydewaze
Oh I was not trying to argue. It was more of a rhetorical question / devil's advocate type thing.
As far as why they sell road racing bikes with raised bars, my theory is that it's done for sales purposes. Joe Public comes into an LBS, and he wants a racing bike, like he saw on OLN. The LBS suggests a comfort bike, but Joe does not like the stigma associated with riding a comfort bike. After all, Joe wants to go fast. But if Joe gets on a racing bike and has to bend down 4" past the saddle to reach the bars, Joe's back and neck are going to hurt, so he may not buy the bike. But with the raised bars, Joe sits on the bike and thinks, "yeah, I can do this" and the sale is made. Besides, anyone who's an experienced cyclist will know he can just flip the stem to get the bars in the right place, but Joe may not know he can flip the stem up, and the LBS doesn't want to have to keep flipping stems up for all the people like Joe, so they just ship them that way. |
Originally Posted by rufvelo
Congrats! While you don't HAVE TO flip the stem, this is how a 'performance-oriented' bike should look and I'm sure, feel.
That is *not* how a bike should look! The steerer is way too long, it has a ton of spacers, and then the stem sticks out horizontally. This increases the weight and flex... and most importantly increases the chances of steerer failure. You could remove all the spacers, cut down the steerer, and install a stem with ~+6 degree rise to get the bars in the same location. Stems with this angle are much more common than the +-17 degree one shown in the picture. |
Originally Posted by rruff
That is *not* how a bike should look! The steerer is way too long, it has a ton of spacers, and then the stem sticks out horizontally. This increases the weight and flex... and most importantly increases the chances of steerer failure. You could remove all the spacers, cut down the steerer, and install a stem with ~+6 degree rise to get the bars in the same location. Stems with this angle are much more common than the +-17 degree one shown in the picture.
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Originally Posted by rruff
This increases the weight and flex...
As I've stated before in other threads where other people (Perhaps you?) have stated similar things, I ride a Trek 1000 and I love it. Do you really think the few ounces I'd shave off by hacking my steerer and installing the *ahem* "proper" stem matter to me? And as far as flex is concerned, I don't feel a whole helluva lot. There's less flex on my roadie than there is on my fixie which rolls with a quill stem. So, as I've asked in other threads and *never* been answered, if the symptoms you describe don't really apply to me why should I go to all the trouble to make those changes? So it looks "proper"? So that the few bike pundits who scoff at my setup are satisfied? |
Originally Posted by rruff
The steerer is way too long.
Originally Posted by rruff
it has a ton of spacers.
Originally Posted by rruff
the stem sticks out horizontally. This increases the weight and flex....
Definitely not perfect but waaaay better in setup than what he first had. |
Originally Posted by rufvelo
Is it carbon?
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That second photo (post-flipped) is a little weird. The saddle-bag's gone, but the shadows seem to show a phantom bag still installed... ;)
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
The saddle-bag's gone, but the shadows seem to show a phantom bag still installed... ;)
I guess... you know how they say that if you lose a limb you still feel it as if it were there and responding to you? It's like that, but for my bike and its saddle bag instead of me and a limb. :D |
We can all make this easier. Before you take pictures of your bike, put the stem in the flipped-down position (with all the spacers removed, too). Then once your pictures are posted, put the stem in the position that is right for you. Voila - no more "flip it" comments.
For extra points: Chain set in highest gear, crankarm at 2 o'clock, drive-side picture, and your dirty laundry picked up from the floor. |
Originally Posted by iamtim
So, as I've asked in other threads and *never* been answered, if the symptoms you describe don't really apply to me why should I go to all the trouble to make those changes? So it looks "proper"? So that the few bike pundits who scoff at my setup are satisfied?
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Originally Posted by rufvelo
Congrats! While you don't HAVE TO flip the stem, this is how a 'performance-oriented' bike should look and I'm sure, feel.
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Originally Posted by iamtim
Pre-flippage:
http://www.timhuntley.info/wp/images/trek01.jpg Post-flippage: http://www.timhuntley.info/wp/images/trek02.jpg Also, I think your bike will look much better without the spacers. Just my $0.02...... |
Originally Posted by rruff
I don't think you should change it. I was replying to the guy who said it was the way a bike was *supposed* to look. In my opinion the "proper" setup is the one that is optimally functional, which will depend somewhat on the priorities of the person riding the bike. It is stiffer, lighter, and stronger to cut the steerer as short as possible, and use a stem with the proper rise to get the bars in the position you prefer. Stiffness and weight are usually over-rated, but strength may still be an issue... and then there is aesthetics, which I'll leave to the fashion police.
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
That second photo (post-flipped) is a little weird. The saddle-bag's gone, but the shadows seem to show a phantom bag still installed... ;)
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Originally Posted by rruff
http://www.timhuntley.info/wp/images/trek02.jpg
That is *not* how a bike should look! The steerer is way too long, it has a ton of spacers, and then the stem sticks out horizontally. This increases the weight and flex... and most importantly increases the chances of steerer failure. You could remove all the spacers, cut down the steerer, and install a stem with ~+6 degree rise to get the bars in the same location. Stems with this angle are much more common than the +-17 degree one shown in the picture. Something like mine? Sheldon Brown-approved saddle to bars height ratio http://homepage.mac.com/bbattle/.Pic...25A62711DA.jpg For the recreational rider, something like my wife's FX would be more appropriate. http://homepage.mac.com/bbattle/.Pic...36A62711DA.jpg edit: my saddle height changed just slightly when I switched from 175mm(shown) to 170mm cranks |
Nice Orbea!
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Originally Posted by linus
iamtim, I would recommend you to remove all the spacers instead of flipping your stem.
Also, I think your bike will look much better without the spacers. Just my $0.02...... DrPete |
Originally Posted by DrPete
+1. By looking at the pic, it looks like flipping the stem up and removing all the spacers would put the bar in almost the exact same place, without extra junk on the steerer tube.
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Yeah, I guess the top of the headset would limit it, but it's close.
Well, off for a ride to the Bay. After a somewhat irritating morning on BF, I think I'm going to throw on my Camelbak, make sure my stem is flipped up, and wear my Discovery Champs Elysses jersey for a nice 55-miler. ;) DrPete |
Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
That second photo (post-flipped) is a little weird. The saddle-bag's gone, but the shadows seem to show a phantom bag still installed... ;)
Not that it relates to the thread at all! Fredrock |
Originally Posted by bbattle
Sheldon Brown-approved saddle to bars height ratio
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