rufvelo

That is the point I'm constantly trying to make with my 'flip it' comments.

There is a very specific reason for both drop bar shape and placement well below the seat height! It is the only thing, helping with aero and some forward weight transfer, that will get you to certain performance AND endurance levels at the same time.

I'm the first to recommend to so many people that all they really need is a flat-bar hybrid with decent components, 28-32 tires and lots of quality riding time.

ALways baffles me when a complete newbie comes home with a $1800 'I preferred this one from my test rides' Ultegra equipped 23c tired bike with the bar and hoods 3 inches above the seat, pointing at the sky! Sure my road bike bars are 4 inches below seat for performance reasons, but I do own a flat-bar hybrid and put around 2K VERY ENJOYABLE miles on it last year.

farrellcollie

I bought a road bike and added a stem riser - it was not an image driven choice - it was because I wanted to ease into a new bike position and learn to use clipless pedals and drops without causing back or wrist pain. the bike feels faster to me, is more fun to ride, and will be used for longer road rides with friends who have ridden road bikes for years - I test rode the trek pilot 2.1 several times - I liked the scott better and will probably remove stem riser eventually when I am sure of myself on the bike -- what difference does it make to you if I put a riser on or not? just don't assume it is for image

cydewaze

There's nothing wrong with fine-tuning your position. That's what the spacers are for. And it sounds like you made the correct bike choice for the kind of riding you plan to do. But not everyone does.


With so many people here proclaiming that the "flip it" comment just for image, I wanted to show that the knife cuts in both directions. I won't assume your position is just for image if you won't assume everyone else's is.

LordOpie

risers imply that you're on the wrong bike. If it's temporary while you adjust, cool, but it shouldn't be a long term solution.

While there's been no hard facts to suggest that they're dangerous, the simple fact is, you're creating forces that torque the headtube and welds that designers/builders don't build for. Will it fail? Unlikely, but why take long-term chances on it?

I wouldn't dare use any extension type item on carbon or aluminum bikes. You typically don't get a failure warning with CF/AL, it just goes critical in a heartbeat.

But if you find you prefer a more upright position, you might very well have longer legs than the average person and should consider a custom build for your next ride.

Besides, anyone who's got handlebars low enough to pleasure himself orally is either a student of yoga who's learned who to stay aerobic in that position or a rider who doesn't realize he's robbing himself by decreasing his lung capacity.

urbanknight

A yes, makes perfect sense. It would make the most sense (to me) is they assemble the lower end bikes flipped for the "Joes" you talk about, and set the racing bikes the right way for those who know what they're buying.

rruff

https://www.timhuntley.info/wp/images/trek02.jpg

That is *not* how a bike should look! The steerer is way too long, it has a ton of spacers, and then the stem sticks out horizontally. This increases the weight and flex... and most importantly increases the chances of steerer failure. You could remove all the spacers, cut down the steerer, and install a stem with ~+6 degree rise to get the bars in the same location. Stems with this angle are much more common than the +-17 degree one shown in the picture.

cydewaze

Perhaps a different stem would be better, but when you're experimenting with a new position, you tend to use what you have until you get it dialed in. I wouldn't want to buy a new stem or hack my steerer until I was 100% sure I wouldn't be needing to change it again.

iamtim

*yawn*

As I've stated before in other threads where other people (Perhaps you?) have stated similar things, I ride a Trek 1000 and I love it. Do you really think the few ounces I'd shave off by hacking my steerer and installing the *ahem* "proper" stem matter to me? And as far as flex is concerned, I don't feel a whole helluva lot. There's less flex on my roadie than there is on my fixie which rolls with a quill stem.

So, as I've asked in other threads and *never* been answered, if the symptoms you describe don't really apply to me why should I go to all the trouble to make those changes? So it looks "proper"? So that the few bike pundits who scoff at my setup are satisfied?

rufvelo

- No, probably just 1cm, not ideal, but OK. Is it carbon?

- No not 'a ton', probably 1cm more than recommended square, not ideal, but OK.

- No, negligble increase in the weight and flex. Theoretically he could also shave his eyebrows...

Definitely not perfect but waaaay better in setup than what he first had.

iamtim

The fork is carbon with an aluminum steerer, I believe. I know I was not sliding that stem over carbon when I flipped it, sure 'nuff.

DannoXYZ 

That second photo (post-flipped) is a little weird. The saddle-bag's gone, but the shadows seem to show a phantom bag still installed...

iamtim

Holy crap, I hadn't noticed that! How bizarre!

I guess... you know how they say that if you lose a limb you still feel it as if it were there and responding to you? It's like that, but for my bike and its saddle bag instead of me and a limb.

sestivers

We can all make this easier. Before you take pictures of your bike, put the stem in the flipped-down position (with all the spacers removed, too). Then once your pictures are posted, put the stem in the position that is right for you. Voila - no more "flip it" comments.

For extra points: Chain set in highest gear, crankarm at 2 o'clock, drive-side picture, and your dirty laundry picked up from the floor.

rruff

I don't think you should change it. I was replying to the guy who said it was the way a bike was *supposed* to look. In my opinion the "proper" setup is the one that is optimally functional, which will depend somewhat on the priorities of the person riding the bike. It is stiffer, lighter, and stronger to cut the steerer as short as possible, and use a stem with the proper rise to get the bars in the position you prefer. Stiffness and weight are usually over-rated, but strength may still be an issue... and then there is aesthetics, which I'll leave to the fashion police.

linus

Not true. The "performance-oriented" bike shouldn't have that much spacers.

linus

iamtim, I would recommend you to remove all the spacers instead of flipping your stem.

Also, I think your bike will look much better without the spacers. Just my $0.02......

linus

This is generally true. Also this is one of many advantages of threadless system.

dmitrivich

Uh, yeah. Well beyond weird and well into the category of questionable. Nice catch.

bbattle

Something like mine? Sheldon Brown-approved saddle to bars height ratio


For the recreational rider, something like my wife's FX would be more appropriate.


edit: my saddle height changed just slightly when I switched from 175mm(shown) to 170mm cranks

cydewaze

Nice Orbea!

DrPete 

+1. By looking at the pic, it looks like flipping the stem up and removing all the spacers would put the bar in almost the exact same place, without extra junk on the steerer tube.

DrPete

cydewaze

I'm pretty sure it would leave him higher than he has it now. I think he'd need a 0 or 6 degree stem to get what he has now without spacers.

DrPete 

Yeah, I guess the top of the headset would limit it, but it's close.

Well, off for a ride to the Bay. After a somewhat irritating morning on BF, I think I'm going to throw on my Camelbak, make sure my stem is flipped up, and wear my Discovery Champs Elysses jersey for a nice 55-miler.

DrPete

FredrockinVA

If you look at the hight of the shadow, you can see that the sun is pretty high. What you're seeing is almost a "top view" shadow of the saddle. That part of the shadow that looks like the bag is the half of the saddle closest to the camera. Light is my business.
Not that it relates to the thread at all!

Fredrock

linus

WTH is this? How could someone else approve YOUR saddle to bar height?