will dehne

Hello guys. This is not a hypothetical question.
I just got back from a coast to coast SAG supported tour at 120 to 150 miles/day.
I had a blast and want to do it again soon but I learned a few lessons and like to make some improvements.
1) I used a Cannondale R2000 Alu bike with CF forks.
2) My tour buddies made fun of my bike which was greatly heavier than anybody else's bike. This contributed to me having a tough time in the mountains.
3) The Cannondale was extremely "fidgety" on poor road surfaces and on 35 MPH declines from Flagstaff and Mingus Mountain. I felt unsafe and had to greatly reduce the speed. Many roads had a washboard effect. The front of the Cannondale vibrated fiercely.
BTW, I was very competitive on rolling hills and flats.

So now I am looking for a new bike. I live in a relative small town with only one Real LBS. They have Trek, Klein, Le Mond, Fuji. Chicago is 200 miles away, round trip.
I got friends in far away places who recommend the following bikes, all of which are supposed to solve all my problems:
Friend #1 Colnago
Friend #2 Merckx
Friend #3 Litespeed
Friend #4 Orbea
Friend #5 Habanero
Local friend Specilized Roubaix
Local LBS Trek Madone
Tour Leader Roark
Now what do I do? I cannot buy them all and cannot test ride them all.
I am hoping that some of you have been riding some of these bikes and care to comment?

BTW, the most popular bike on that tour was Litespeed. There were 30 bikers. The fastest guy used Orbea. (I think the tour leader was faster but was PC)

masi61

Which generation frame is on your R2000? I'm a little confused how it could be so much heavier or have inferior handling compared to the others. I would think it would be at least as light. Which carbon fork are you using?

cooker

Hi, there's a thread going on right now about "randoneurring" (sp?) bikes in the long-distance forum that may be of interest. I included the possible faulty spelling in case you need to search for it.

will dehne

I bought this R2000 from a LBS as a package four or five years ago. I do not know what generation Aluminum frame this is. Is there a number on it somewhere? Same goes for the carbon fork. This bike is in Detroit area and I will be there later this week and go and look.
I am comparing this bike with CF bikes from Orbea, Merckx and Trek Madone. We did not have a scale with us but lifting my bike with one hand and one of the three above with the other hand made the difference quite obvious.
I do have a 5" stem and aero bars which the other guys did not have but that does not explain the difference in weight. I can go and get a scale and weigh this bike if I must.
The inferior handling is strictly limited to vibration due to this washboard effect. Reading this BF that seems to be the problem with Aluminum bikes. There are many posts saying that. So I am surprised by your question. I ride this bike aggressively on a Metro Park Road in Detroit area. It is fine for that. Arizona Mountains is another story.
BTW, I am a big guy with 195 lb. and 6 ft tall. (no fat)

will dehne

OK, I will look.

badkarma

I think it's dick to make fun of anyone's bike. I've ridden with some people on POSs, but I've never made mention of it.

Also, I wouldn't pay any attention to what the fastest guy was riding, as it's mentioned numerous times in this forum, it's the engine that matters more than the bike.

I don't know what your price range is, but if you want a nice bike at a good price, I've been hearing that the Trek5200s (you mentioned there's a Trek dealer right in town) have been selling around 2k - which to me is a great price for a nice CF frame and mostly ultegra components.

will dehne

I am a guy coming to this type of biking late in life. I had to learn a lot quickly. There is no Road biking activity in this area but I go often biking to Metro Detroit and Wisconsin.
My problems with climbing can be explained with having improper gearing. My 39/32 gears did not allow high cadence on 10 to 15% grades. I usually do 90 to 100 RPM. Going down to much less RPM makes me ineffective.

The Trek 5200 or Madone are of interest. I just wonder if the Specialized Roubaix would be more stable?
I think the Colnago and Litespeed are nice bikes but do cost quite a bit more. Question: Is that woth it?
That is where I am at. I can afford any of these bikes but do not want to spend money for no added value. Name plate prestige is not a factor for me.

KevinF

I have trouble believing that a Cannondale R2000 is all that much heavier then much anything else. You could go on a weight-weenie craze and make it lighter, but I doubt it would make much difference in your climbing ability. As you said in another post, you weigh in at 195. You apparently are a really strong rider, but that's still a lot of weight to be dragging up mountain passes.

If you find a bike that inspires confidence on high-speed descents on crappy roads, let me know. New England is full of them (as you might have just found out). Meanwhile, I'll just keep my descent speed slower then my guardian angel flies.

badkarma

If you claim you have improper gearing, I don't quite see the logic in buying a new frame, as you can change out your cranks or your cassette to get proper gearing.

I'm assuming (perhaps I'm wrong), that's it's pretty flat in Michigan and Wisconsin, so you're probably not used to steep climbs, but they're something you have to train your body for. So perhaps, your body isn't trained to do a lot of climbing seeing how you live (again, I assume) in a fairly flat region of the country.

What's your gearing on your crank (i.e. triple or double and the chainring sizes), and what's the size of your cassette?

A Trek5200 is plenty of bike for 99.87% of us. It comes with a nice CF frame, which will give you added comfort for longer rides (as it seems you do), and it comes with a nice gruppo. From a 2k bike to a 3-4k bike, the difference you're going to see is marginal at best, so IMO, you'd be plenty fine with a 5200.

will dehne

Double Chain-ring 53/39 with cassette 11/32. As I said, 39/32 did not allow 80 to 90 RPM cadence on 10 to 15% grades. So I agree that I need a triple chain-ring.
I am not arguing, just giving information: I was biking side by side with other bikers on really terrible secondary roads. Looked to me like gravel held together with minimum blacktop. I was the only biker with an Aluminum frame bike and could not help notice the difference in vibration transferred to the bars, hands and shoulders. This went on for many hours and was not fun.

will dehne

One advantage of going with a tour of 30 bikers for 28 days is comparison. You go side by side with others and you see difference in vibration, cadence and stability. We were doing 25 days with average 120 miles/day. Some days 150 miles. I had no trouble being up front on rolling terrain and flats. I am certain that better gearing would help, less certain that the weight is of paramount importance, certain that my bike was/is fidgety compared to others.

badkarma

Yeah, CF tends to dampen out vibrations much better than alum. (but so does steel). Perhaps a CF frame will make your ride more comfortable.

I'm not sure how frequently you plan to be on 10-15% grades, but if you can justify it, consider either a triple or a compact double (50/36 or 50/34).

You're a bigger guy, so don't expect to be able to motor up a climb with the same cadence as someone who weighs 140 lbs. no matter what equipment you're using.

badkarma

I'm 6'00", 185 lbs, and I can hang with most of the guys in my club on the flats and rollers, but I can't hang with them on the climbs. The weight is of paramount importance. Lighter bikes and optimal gearing help, but the biggest issue is the rider weight.

masi61

I bought this R2000 from a LBS as a package four or five years ago. I do not know what generation Aluminum frame this is.

Is it a CAAD3, CAAD4, CAAD5, Optimo? Just wondering what the frame says.


Is there a number on it somewhere?
Usually there is a decal on the seatstays which says which version it is.

Same goes for the carbon fork.
If its an issue with the fork, you can upgrade to a higher quality carbon fork like Ouzo Pro, no first hand experience here, I would check with your bikeshop for advice here.


The inferior handling is strictly limited to vibration due to this washboard effect. Reading this BF that seems to be the problem with Aluminum bikes. There are many posts saying that. So I am surprised by your question.

You read a lot of things on BF, not all of it is true. Some things you really need to check out for yourself, which it sounds as if you have (in large part).
I have an older R1000 frameset that is a CAAD3 version with the straight (not curved) seatstays and chainstays. I've heard that these can be uncomfortable, but I'm waiting until I log some miles before I draw any conclusions. I would think that your test of lifting up one bike with each hand is pretty subjective. Aluminum bikes are some of the most lightweight out there. I'll bet your bike would weigh about the same as the others without the aero bars. What kind of wheels does your bike have?

H1449-6

How did you find this tour? Sounds like fun.

Pat

Will,

Well, the Cannondale Bike frames have different forms as time goes on. Frames usually have a number like CAAD 3, CAAD 4, CAAD 5 and so on.

I have ridden cannondales for years. The early versions tended to be very stiff. Oddly enough, my first 'dale, the Black Lightning with Suntour Sprint components handled great especially at high speeds. It just had a harsh ride.

I had a Cannondale of similar vintage to yours CAAD 5 or was it 6? At anyrate, it did vibrate on a high speed descent on me. That was pretty scary. The compliance of the ride of this bike was reasonably good. Also the Cannondales are pretty light. None of my older Cannondales had this problem.

I am riding a litespeed Classic and it rides very well. It seems to have a bit more compliant ride than a cannondale and does not have the problem on descents.

will dehne

Pat:
Your reply is what I was hoping for.
You are confirming the high speed descent vibration therefore it was not unique to my Cannondale.
You are riding a Litespeed and reporting that it is relatively better. (checks with my observation)
This is helpful in that I had a doubt that perhaps my Cannondale was not assembled or adjusted right. I was wondering about the steering column stem bearings. The vibration was awful but only on these lousy roads. I am using this bike now on a park road which is also not in good condition. That bike is OK there.

will dehne

Coast to coast SAG supported tours are done by Pacific Atlantic Cycling (PAC)
and America By Bicycle (AbB)
I found them on Google.
$200/day plus dinner plus flights. 120 to 150 miles/day.
Have fun, I did and will go again.

will dehne

I suspect you are correct but we are trying to improve. I cannot reduce to 150 lbs. I would get sick. My weight was 240 lbs only three years ago.

H1449-6

Thanks for the leads. Sounds fairly reasonable.

jwdanie

Here's another one - https://www.crossroadscycling.com/

ken cummings

PacTour, Lon Haldeman and family, Sharon, WI right? Also check out the Ultramarathon Cycling Association.
Lon and his wife Susan Notorangelo are the past masters of ultratours. I would check with them before buying a bike specific to their types of rides. They have had 200 mile a day crossings and even have one that overlaps RAAM. I have only been tempted by their occasional runs down the Mother Road. Randoneuring involves carrying your own stuff, quite different from PacTour.

will dehne

I will use a scale to come up with more exact statements. The bike is 500 miles away but I will ride on it later this week. I will also look for the decal.
The bike came with Crane Creek wheels but I had to use new wheels with exposed spoke nipples by Bontrager. BTW, the rear wheel busted. Four spokes cracked the rim. Those were Race wheels with 24 spokes. (not good for a 195 lbs guy I was told)

badkarma

I'm not trying to tell you how to spend your money, I'm just trying to hammer home the point that the engine makes such a significantly bigger difference on performance as compared to equipment.

Thanks for listing the info for the cross country tour, that's something I'll definitely consider when the time's right.

will dehne

You made that point and I agree. For fun let me say were I am at:
With that Cannondale, on a rolling hill type circular course, I am just under 20 MPH average going solo. Biking very hard.
I would love to get over 20 MPH average as measured by a Cateye Astrale 8 over 50 mile run.
If a new bike gets me there, that would be worth it to me. Even if it is partly psychological.
BTW, I use a Trek Hybrid with 700 x 38 tires on a CyleOps FL2 trainer doing 17 MPH. I am trying to get that up higher also. All of that to do the next cross country tour in style. (2008)