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Newest New York City Law????

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Newest New York City Law????

Old 07-19-06, 09:49 PM
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MAK
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Newest New York City Law????

I just read an article in the Post saying that to combat critical mass rides and other assorted gatherings of cyclists, pedestrians and even autos, the following will take effect.

1. It will be an illegal gathering if two or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together and break the law. (i.e. - run lights) Yes, two! Families beware!

2. It will be an illegal gathering if twenty or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together even if they obey all laws.

Apparently, a permit will be required for the above scenarios.

There are some other parts of the law that the article alluded to but didn't explain.

While obviously aimed at critical mass rides and large demonstrations, this seems to effect club sponsored rides of twenty or more. The justification is that emergency vehicles get blocked as well as normal traffic. They also cite security issues. I'm an attorney but not a constitutonal law specialist, however, it seems to me that the First Amendment's Freedom of Association is being abridged.

Does anyone have further information about this?
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Old 07-19-06, 10:14 PM
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Are these laws actually in effect, or are these going through the whole process to become offical?

Either way, i can only say that this is utter b.s. and will only promote more cyclist to come out to cm to fight for our rights, hell, i'm gunna start goin now.

What bothers me most of all, they could not find a more pathetic excuse for the law; that we hold up the traffic. Hell im faster then auto traffic for the most part, as are most cyclists, so its just the large volume of cars that cause the traffic slow ups.

If they want cyclist out of the way give us useable bike lanes, ticket the a=holes that double park in our lane that force us into moving traffic.

They need to look at the bigger picture, but instead they, all those political figures surrounding the law, are too lazy, and they take shortcuts, blame us, yet we are not the effing source of thier damn problems.
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Old 07-20-06, 06:20 AM
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They're proposed rules. I can't imagine any version of this would pass given the previous gains CM made in court.
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Old 07-20-06, 06:24 AM
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I'm not a lawyer, although my Father, Sister, and Brother are, but I have no clue how these laws - proposed or otherwise - would be worth the paper they're printed on.

Perhaps a practicing lawyer, preferably one with constitutional law experience , could chime in?
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Old 07-20-06, 07:00 AM
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Some members of the New York Cycle Club have (informally) proposed complying with these laws: We will dutifully and willingly submit a request for a "parade" permit for every 20-person or larger group ride we plan. Let's see, that works out to approximately 8-10 permits PER DAY, seven days a week. Since my wife and I generally ride together from our house to the starting point of these club rides, we'll also submit requests for seperate permits for those "parades".

Be careful what you ask for, Bruce Smolka!
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Old 07-20-06, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Lucky07
They're proposed rules. I can't imagine any version of this would pass given the previous gains CM made in court.

They don't have to actually pass anything - to my understanding, the NYPD is bypassing the rule of law and just setting this policy. No legislation involved.

The end result will be this: for a year, the NYPD will make enormous numbers of arrests. Free speech and free assembly in the city will come to an end. After a year - or more - and at ENORMOUS expense, the NYCLU will force an end to the policy in court. Then the NYPD will come up with another way to use the system as a punishment in itself, and the whole cycle will repeat.
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Old 07-20-06, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bob Ross
Some members of the New York Cycle Club have (informally) proposed complying with these laws: We will dutifully and willingly submit a request for a "parade" permit for every 20-person or larger group ride we plan. Let's see, that works out to approximately 8-10 permits PER DAY, seven days a week. Since my wife and I generally ride together from our house to the starting point of these club rides, we'll also submit requests for seperate permits for those "parades".

Be careful what you ask for, Bruce Smolka!
Those permits are VERY expensive to obtain.
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Old 07-20-06, 08:26 AM
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[QUOTE=MAK]

2. It will be an illegal gathering if twenty or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together even if they obey all laws.

QUOTE]

I hate to see all those poor kids on field trips at school end up in the slammer
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Old 07-20-06, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by sandy_pangle

2. It will be an illegal gathering if twenty or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together even if they obey all laws.
I hate to see all those poor kids on field trips at school end up in the slammer
Pretty much should shut down the NYC Marathon, Macy's parade, senior citizen outings, pedestrians heading to the convention center, tour groups, and the like.
(Those darn Segway users are instigating all this, no doubt.)
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Old 07-20-06, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by MAK

1. It will be an illegal gathering if two or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together and break the law. (i.e. - run lights) Yes, two! Families beware!
so... it'll be more illegal, if they do something illegal?
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Old 07-20-06, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by gurana
so... it'll be more illegal, if they do something illegal?
Right. Instead of recieving a traffic ticket, they'll be arrested and have their bicycles siezed for a month to six weeks or longer.
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Old 07-21-06, 06:28 AM
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Why? It should be against the law for a group of cyclists to break the law--- because it already IS against the law.

1. It will be an illegal gathering if two or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together and break the law.

2. It will be an illegal gathering if twenty or more cyclists, pedestrians, etc. travel together even if they obey all laws.
There are already all sorts of restictions placed on assembly, parades, races, walking events, etc. Why should this be any different. If someone started an ad hoc parade that blocked traffic, there would be repercussions.

CM is not about cycling advocacy--- it is urban anarchy. It gives bikes a bad name. Most of what happens in CM is already "illegal" anyway. Seems everyone runs reds-- it is mob rule on two wheels. Sorry, but that isn't a right worth fighting over-- and it has nothing to do with your agenda about bike lanes or whatever. I would fight AGAINST bike lanes- lest you be forced to actually use them.






Originally Posted by .:Jimbo:.
Are these laws actually in effect, or are these going through the whole process to become offical?

Either way, i can only say that this is utter b.s. and will only promote more cyclist to come out to cm to fight for our rights, hell, i'm gunna start goin now.

What bothers me most of all, they could not find a more pathetic excuse for the law; that we hold up the traffic. Hell im faster then auto traffic for the most part, as are most cyclists, so its just the large volume of cars that cause the traffic slow ups.

If they want cyclist out of the way give us useable bike lanes, ticket the a=holes that double park in our lane that force us into moving traffic.

They need to look at the bigger picture, but instead they, all those political figures surrounding the law, are too lazy, and they take shortcuts, blame us, yet we are not the effing source of thier damn problems.
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Old 07-21-06, 07:00 AM
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What ever state law says is what you have to go by. Not what new york cities law says.
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Old 07-21-06, 08:20 AM
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Originally Posted by nova
What ever state law says is what you have to go by. Not what new york cities law says.
So city drivers can start making right on reds?* The bicyclists are really f***ed.



* Right on red is legal in New York State but illegal in NYC.
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Old 07-21-06, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by filtersweep
Why? It should be against the law for a group of cyclists to break the law--- because it already IS against the law.

There are already all sorts of restictions placed on assembly, parades, races, walking events, etc. Why should this be any different. If someone started an ad hoc parade that blocked traffic, there would be repercussions.

CM is not about cycling advocacy--- it is urban anarchy. It gives bikes a bad name. Most of what happens in CM is already "illegal" anyway. Seems everyone runs reds-- it is mob rule on two wheels. Sorry, but that isn't a right worth fighting over-- and it has nothing to do with your agenda about bike lanes or whatever. I would fight AGAINST bike lanes- lest you be forced to actually use them.
I agree with your part about CM but this is bad law. Period. And for that alone I'm against it. (It's possible imapct on me by a pissed off cop is secondary.)

An aside: I quite smoking eight years ago and my wife (also a non-smoker) is a bartender but when the city passed legislation banning smoking in bars, I was against that, too. Not because I miss the smell on my clothes but because it is bad, anti-American legislation. The city does not have the right to tell a bar owner he can or can not allow smoking in his bar.
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Old 07-21-06, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by nova
What ever state law says is what you have to go by. Not what new york cities law says.
What are you talking about?

An interesting point was made in this thread. Someone should call the cops every time they see a schoolbus of kids unload. Maybe it'll point out the stupidity of this policy.
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Old 07-21-06, 09:34 AM
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The critical mass rides have stirred the pot, somewhat, kicked a sleeping dog. Freedoms are eroding in this town everyday. The right to assemble is one of the first things a facist government gets rid of. Now if you can't assemble on a bicyle what will that do to central park when you are riding along chatting and a third guy rides up alongside? I think this will dissapate over time. Except for the larger groups. Cops don't like groups of people, mobs, protesters never did never will. Some of the most effective/obnoxious gatherings in this city have been by the police union, blocking traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge, if I remember correctly, don't know if they had "permits"
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Old 07-21-06, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by kraftwerk
Some of the most effective/obnoxious gatherings in this city have been by the police union, blocking traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge, if I remember correctly, don't know if they had "permits"
Good point. But what you over look is that the men and women in blue own NYC. Well, until they get in their SUV and speed home to Nassau County/Staten Island (yes, I know it is one of the five...)

[Yes, there are some police officers who are different/good/etc. It is, in general the institution that is corrupt. But that mentality is systemic.]
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Old 07-21-06, 04:32 PM
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We have a constitutional right to free assembly. I'm sure the ACLU will have this struck down in no time. The law is patently absurd.

What gets me is that this all started because the cyclists and other protesters at the RNC in 2004 made buffoons out of the NYPD because it put the spotlight on their illegal actions, and it cost the city money. They've had a bone to pick with ALL cyclists since. They'll look like the buffoons that they are again with this. I voted against Bloomberg twice, and I would vote against him again if he weren't already at his term limit.
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Old 07-21-06, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by zacster
We have a constitutional right to free assembly.
Well, close.
The First Amendment protects "the right of the people peaceably to assemble." ("Free assembly" might be confused with "free speech," from the same amendment.)

NYC could argue that they are not seeking to prohibit "peaceful" assemblies (that's how they get to require permits for parades and marches, after all). (There are severe problems with the provisions in the text from the OP, for sure.)

Use of state power to restrict the time, place and manner of assembly, however, has NOT per se been ruled constitutionally prohibited (within reasonable restrictions). And as a result of Federal judiciary appointments and Senate approval in the past five years, is much less likely to be within your lifetime.
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Old 07-22-06, 12:17 AM
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While I'm sure that Critical Mass problems were a part of the thinking, the article says that the new law will apply to all vehicles as well as pedestrians. I can understand that CMs cause problems but this law is so overbroad that it begs to be overturned. The overkill is obvious. My concern (cycling wise) is the club rides and even family rides that will be affected. I am definately not anti-police but what is going to happen is that some ten year old on a club ride or school field trip will end up on the cover of the Post or Daily News after being arrested for being a violator. Then the law gets rethought and amended or repealed. Sometimes politicians, intending to do good things, just don't think things through.
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Old 07-22-06, 06:52 AM
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There's ALWAYS a way around crapola like that. Just "organize" groups of twenty, and ride 20 minutes apart, or on different streets or avenues. There's all kinds of super annoying things that can be done to show "them" you can get away with it if you want to. Stop at ALL the lights.... in front of police cars especially. It would take some extra time consuming organizing, but if 10,000 people wanted to ride just make sure you stay in groups of twenty ALL OVER THE CITY! Now that WOULD be a pain in the ass to motorist. Instead of one HUGE group, make sure you are EVERYWHERE in small groups. EVERY WEEKEND!!
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