biker7

they actually find their new riding position more comfortable? Because I am older, I have been riding with my handlebars maybe only 1/2" or so lower then my saddle. Since I have been riding a fair amount in the wind and know what a big impact the wind has on speed and power...I decided to flip the stem and think I can adjust to it and reap the benefit of a more aerodynamic position. I think it may also be a more powerful riding position but not sure about that. I also tipped the saddle nose down a degree or so for a bit more room to my perineum with the slightly lower handlebar position. I am still not riding in a real aero position but may end up preferring this position for both power and speed.
Anybody else prefer flipped their stems and noticed they can generate more power and speed with little discomfort? Seems like my higher hands detracted a bit from my power transfer to the pedals over and above the aerodynamic improvement...is this possible? What do you guys run for your handlebar to saddle drop as a general rule?...the guys in the TdF of course run a big drop.
Thanks for any comments,
George
P.S. Congrats to Floyd...you are an inspiration and define courage and humility...a deserving champion.

shakeNbake

Are you inspired by Landis' yellow bike?

Anyways you should give it a try, it's not a big hassle to do.

khuon

When I first started road riding, I originally had a 120mm stem on and found it too long. I knew little about road bike fitting when I was building it up and decided to just use the same length of stem that I had on my MTB for lack of any other metric. It did have a lower angle however. So after a few months, the bikeshop switched me over to a 90mm stem with a fairly high rise. After riding with it for about ten minutes, I decided it was too high and flipped it. I used that stem for a season and eventually found out that it was a bit sketchy on the climbs so I switched over to a 110mm stem and that fixed everything.



I also went to a 100mm stem on my MTB too which greatly helped bike handling on the technical sections.

mollusk

I'm an older guy (52) and I run with my bars about 4 1/2 inches lower than my saddle and I ride in the drops a lot. And yes it I find it more comfortable than sitting upright on the bike.

johnny99

1. Not too long ago, a horizontal stem was the common position and pointed up was considered abnormal. Are those reversed now?

2. There is no way to tell what stem position is best for you without watching you ride. Body position as well as fitness level should determine what stem height works best.

3. Steerer length greatly affects handlebar height. Many people like the increased stiffness of cutting their steerer all the way down and using a flipped up stem.

4. Stronger riders generally prefer a lower handlebar because their legs are supporting their upper body. Weaker ridres generally prefer a higher handlebar because their shoulders are supporting their upper body.

the beef

I'm young, 16 years old. Been riding for years. I recently bought a 2003 Bianchi Veloce off of Craigslist for $700 - beautiful condition. The guy in the ad listed it as a 53 cm, my size; but turns out it was actually a 55. Still, I was too far along to say no, so I ended up buying it and compensating with a 90 mm stem down from the stock 110.

The main issue is reach for me. Flipping the stem kills my back because it increases the reach, so I have a 6 degree rise at the moment. I've got my bars maybe 2 inches lower than the saddle, and I'm hoping to grow enough to be able to use a more aggressive position in the future. When I had my old 52 cm Bianchi Brava I was able to set the bars almost half a foot below the bars.

Markedoc

Well, my drop is 4" from saddle to bars. I am 46 - not sure if that's "old" or not - you be the judge. Longest ride this year has been 136 miles and my back felt fine afterwards. I enjoy the drops for the aero advantage but probably spend the greatest % of the time on the hoods.

iamtim

Topic o' much debate round these parts, 'specially fer me.

My bike started like this, which bars way up on the moon:


Then, after riding for a while and getting into better shape, I decided to flip the stem. It came out like this:


I thought it looked cool; it reminded me of an old-school quill stem. I got used to it pretty quick, but my first few rides I felt like I was hanging on to the front axle. I took some heat round these parts for that setup, so I flipped it back and lowered it on the steerer tube thusly:


I didn't feel any difference, riding wise, between the second picture and the third picture. But I didn't like the excess steerer tube with all the spacers, so I had my FLBS chop it down. Now she looks like this:


Do I get more power? Well, I *feel* like I get more power. I feel stronger riding in a more aero position, even when riding on the hoods or bars. I can tuck down farther, too, for those long, speedy downhills.

Am I more comfortable? Neither the first picture nor the fourth were uncomfortable so I can't really answer that. I'm not more comfortable nor am I less comfortable. But I feel better riding with the lower bars because I get more power and it doesn't affect my comfort.

So, there's my $.02; take it how you will.

biker7

Wow...we are the exact same age. I too am 52. 4.5" drop is about a racing position...so hats off if no ill effects...you are an inspiration to ride in that position. I am in pretty good shape for my age in particular and notice the more I ride...and I ride a fair amount...the more my body can tolerate if not yearns for a lower riding position. My bars of late have felt a bit high...especially on the hoods with bars up close to the saddle height. One thing I notice is...with the lower bars, my weight is a bit more forward and perhaps why I can get a bit more power into my pedal stroke...not sure of this dynamic but feels that way.
Thanks a lot guys...sounds like many of you have played around with your riding position.
George

stapfam

I am an older rider and I ride mountain bikes. For comfort and ease of handling most MTBs now have the bars higher than the saddle nose. Recently I bought a road bike- only a cheap low end Giant SCR3 and the stem as set up puts the bars below the saddle.-I reversed the stem to put the bars on a level with the Saddle and it is far better-at least for me. Attachments show the MTB and the giant, but there is no set rule for bar height- Ride what is comfortable. The Giant pic shows the bars before I reversed the stem by the way

blandin

I'm 56 and this year I have filpped the stem on 5 out of 7 of my road bikes with no discomfort. Not sure about power benefits, but it looks better and hasn't caused me any back or neck problems.

slide13

That is my favorite look on that bike too. I think a flipped stem looks nice and racey when set up with few or no stack spacers, but to me running a flipped stem with a full 40mm of stack spacers just looks stupid. Getting rid of the extra steerer tube and running with positive angle looks much cleaner I think. Now, if you run flipped with only 20mm or less spacers that can look all right...it's just when you have the full 40mm or more in there that it starts to look wonky. I like your setup though, nice and clean!

popeye

62 YO, short leggs and stem down, low shifters. High bars make my sholders and arms
hurt for some reason. I ride almost exclusively on the hoods as even rideing on the top
bar becomes uncomfortable. I feel best stretched out.

iamtim

Thanks... it may not look it, but I've done a bit of work on that bike. It's not a stock Trek 1000 -- I've changed out the wheels, brakes, pedals, derailleurs, brake lever/shifters, cassette, chain, pretty much everything but the cranks, frame, seat/post, and bars.

I know lots of people don't advocate "upgrades" to a Trek 1000, but I've enjoyed it and she's a great bike for me.

Getting back to the subject at hand, I don't think I'll flip that stem. I'm quite happy with it where it's at.

khuon

And it might also be a safety issue. For instance, on my 1" carbon steerer, the maximum industry recommended spacer height is 25mm (I'm running 20mm) and for a 1-1/8", it's 30mm (and supposedly, that's pushing it). The general rule of thumb (for CF steerers) is no more spacer-stack than the diameter of the steerer.

Yo-

That flipped stem looked cool. If you were comfortable, you should've kept it. The first picture reminds me of somebody wearing pants that are flooded. (in case you don't know what flooded is: pants that are too short for their legs and their socks are visible)

iamtim

For me, half the fun of cycling is wrenching on bikes. If I kept it there, I'da had no excuse to tear my stem apart again.

Think how cool it's going to look when I flip the stem NOW.

InVisib0L

Does the saddle height need to be adjusted after flipping the stem?

R900

No, saddle adjustments are to get your legs in the correct position. Stem/bars are the final adjustments made to correct reach, drop, etc...

I like the second "flipped" pic best, but whatever works for you.

John

khuon

If it does then you weren't fitted properly to the bike. Saddle height is for leg extension. Stem angle and height is for upper body/hand positioning and reach.

InVisib0L

Oh cool thanks. Now second question. I just tried loosening up those hex screws but can't. I look at it and there's sorta like some grease or something that maybe cements it on? It's on so tight. Am I doing it wrong? Do you have to loosen up both hex screws at the same time?

khuon

The threads of those bolts are probably greased but it shouldn't "cement" them on. The grease is there in order to allow for proper torquing of the bolts during installation. You should loosen the faceplate bolts and remove the handlebar from the stem. Then loosen the topcap bolt and both pinch bolts so you can pull the stem off the steerer. When re-installing, make sure the threads are still fairly well greased. Tighten the topcap bolt to apply some preload and then snug down the pinch bolts alternatively to apply even clamping load. I'd recommend using a torque wrench and finding out the torque specs. This is especially important if you have a carbon steerer. The same goes for attaching the handlebars. Don't tighten one bolt completely before the other. Do them up a little at a time and if it's a 4-bolt faceplate, use a cross-cross pattern.

Enthalpic

No.

Enthalpic

What colour is the 'cement'? I hope they didn't use loctite.

InVisib0L

It's sorta like creme/vanilla color. But anyway, I guess I'll have my LBS do it because I don't have a torque wrench. Thanks for the help guys.