Asians in the Tour De France?
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Kenyan, Tibetan, Peruvian, bah! A Kryptonian could beat them all - especially at high altitude where he would be closer to the power of our yellow sun.
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Originally Posted by magic8ball
11) why don't I see more italians in martial arts tournaments
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Originally Posted by SaintAndrew
dude everyone's talking about asian people like bruce lee with slanted eyes and yellow skin, not people who just happen to live in asia.
Who is more Asian, Jesus Christ or Bruce Lee? Jesus was born in Asia. Bruce Lee was born in California.
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Originally Posted by johnny99
Dude, Asia is a big continent with many different ethnic groups. Saying that they all look like Bruce Lee is at best stereotyping and at worst racist. Only a minority of Asians have "slanted eyes and yellow skin".
Who is more Asian, Jesus Christ or Bruce Lee? Jesus was born in Asia. Bruce Lee was born in California.
Who is more Asian, Jesus Christ or Bruce Lee? Jesus was born in Asia. Bruce Lee was born in California.
i didn't say everyone in asia looks like bruce lee; i said by "asian" he was talking about bruce lee-looking people, like the korean guy who responded, not say vinakourov who is a white, ethnic russian from, yes asia and he doesn't have slanted eyes.
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Originally Posted by smellygary
Easy to profile people and assume all black kids are in the inner city. They're all poor. They're only interested in basketball and rap. And no chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life, like yours.
Where ever you are from, stay there. The rest of us are trying to get away from attitudes like that.
Where ever you are from, stay there. The rest of us are trying to get away from attitudes like that.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
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Uh huh.. in NYC, dead right.
Originally Posted by jimx200
"All black kids are poor"? Sounds patronizing and a little racist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
#82
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Originally Posted by smellygary
Part of it is that theres not a whole lot of corporate sponsonship for sports in China.....yet. And there's still a bit of a different mentality to the bicycle in China. Its for transprotation, not fun. If you try to explain about riding a bike for fun on a hot day, or rainy or what ever, it just won't sink in. "Why don't you just take the bus instead? The idea of bicycle racing is over the top for most.
And their love affair with Yao Ming and the NBA pretty much prevents anybody from caring about any other sport right now.
And their love affair with Yao Ming and the NBA pretty much prevents anybody from caring about any other sport right now.
I've been fortunate to attend the last 3 Taipei Bicycle Expositions and there are a TON of smaller companies that make parts for others or under their own names. But, many many of the folks look like they have NEVER ridden their own products. In other words, it seems that a significant number of the people involved in the Taiwan bike business are not riders. They only see cycling as a business. Conversely, it seems that many of the people who started cycle-related business in the US are avid cyclists and/or former racers looking to stay in the field.
There is a 7 day Tour of Taiwan race. The final stage is a criterium around the City Government Building that is across the street from the Exposition. The Tour ends on the final day of the Exposition. I've watched the event for the last 2 years and the enthusiastic crowd is quite small (I'd guess maybe 300 to 400 as you can see better than half the course from any corner). The Tour featured the HealthNet-Maxxis Team from the US as well as several Asian and smaller European teams, but it seems it's just not enough to bring the people out.
I think the prevailing attitude towards cycling in Taiwan can be summed up by the following story:
When I first went to Taiwan, I didn't bring my mountain bike with me. After a month, I decided to buy a road bike. I was in Tainan at the time and there was only one guy who dealt in mid to high end bikes. I settled on a new Giant TCR-2 and we made a deal for about $1100US. A couple of weeks later, I happened to ride over to a popular expatriate hangout that I frequented. The bar maid, who was a local, said it was a very pretty bike and asked "...how much you pay?". I told her about $32,000NT. She said "Why did you buy bicycle? You could have a scooter for that much!"
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re: narrow asian definition, or popular far east definition, a more racial definition.
Fumi Beppu crossed to Discovery last season, because Tailwind want penetration into the Japanese market.
In the early 90's Motorola had a Japanese stagiare, Ken Hashikawa, assuming they saw potential in the above purpose - business strategy.
These are the Japanese riders, besides Beppu who have been in the European (div 1) peloton
Masahiko Mifune (Landbouwkrediet - Colnago)
Daisuke Imanaka (Team Polti)
Hidenori Nodera (Team Colpack)
Yoshiyuki Abe (Ceramiche Panaria-Vinavil – 1996, Mapei-GB 1997) (Team Colpack)
Daisuke Imanaka rode the Tour for Polti in 1996.
2005 roster of Skil-Shimano
9. Yoshiyuki Abe (Jpn)
10. Yukihiro Doi (Jpn)
11. Yoshimasa Hirose (Jpn)
12. Tomoya Kano (Jpn)
13. Hidenori Nodera (Jpn)
14. Kaoru Ouchi (Jpn)
15. Masamichi Yamamoto (Jpn) = all from Shimano Japan
16. Masahiro Shinagawa (Jpn) = ex-pro
17. Takamitu Tsuji (Jpn) = neo
2 Japanese riders, Masatoshi Ichikawa (team Frank-Toyo)and Hidenori Nodera have participated in the Giro (in 1990 and 2001 respectively). Both of them finished it. Ichikawa finished at the 50th overall out of 163 finishers and, Nodera the 139th out of 140. To be fair, Ichikawa was a good climber and was the only Japanese rider who could really fight with European riders.
Junichi Kikuta rode Spanish team Artiach in 96
Shinri Suzuki probably the winningest Japanese rider of the last decade. Sprinter/rouleur.
Besides Suzuki, the Fukushima brothers are accomplished cyclists.
Hong Kong's Kam-Po Wong has 8 UCI wins this year.
Fumi Beppu crossed to Discovery last season, because Tailwind want penetration into the Japanese market.
In the early 90's Motorola had a Japanese stagiare, Ken Hashikawa, assuming they saw potential in the above purpose - business strategy.
These are the Japanese riders, besides Beppu who have been in the European (div 1) peloton
Masahiko Mifune (Landbouwkrediet - Colnago)
Daisuke Imanaka (Team Polti)
Hidenori Nodera (Team Colpack)
Yoshiyuki Abe (Ceramiche Panaria-Vinavil – 1996, Mapei-GB 1997) (Team Colpack)
Daisuke Imanaka rode the Tour for Polti in 1996.
2005 roster of Skil-Shimano
9. Yoshiyuki Abe (Jpn)
10. Yukihiro Doi (Jpn)
11. Yoshimasa Hirose (Jpn)
12. Tomoya Kano (Jpn)
13. Hidenori Nodera (Jpn)
14. Kaoru Ouchi (Jpn)
15. Masamichi Yamamoto (Jpn) = all from Shimano Japan
16. Masahiro Shinagawa (Jpn) = ex-pro
17. Takamitu Tsuji (Jpn) = neo
2 Japanese riders, Masatoshi Ichikawa (team Frank-Toyo)and Hidenori Nodera have participated in the Giro (in 1990 and 2001 respectively). Both of them finished it. Ichikawa finished at the 50th overall out of 163 finishers and, Nodera the 139th out of 140. To be fair, Ichikawa was a good climber and was the only Japanese rider who could really fight with European riders.
Junichi Kikuta rode Spanish team Artiach in 96
Shinri Suzuki probably the winningest Japanese rider of the last decade. Sprinter/rouleur.
Besides Suzuki, the Fukushima brothers are accomplished cyclists.
Hong Kong's Kam-Po Wong has 8 UCI wins this year.
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Originally Posted by smellygary
Easy to profile people and assume all black kids are in the inner city. They're all poor. They're only interested in basketball and rap. And no chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life, like yours.
Where ever you are from, stay there. The rest of us are trying to get away from attitudes like that.
Where ever you are from, stay there. The rest of us are trying to get away from attitudes like that.
Don't assume that all inner city kids are black. There are other minorities as well. You think they can afford designer jeans, let alone an entry-level racing bike? I don't think so. Spare me the basketball and rap stereotype. A basketball sure does cost a LOT less money than a bike. And rap is good music. As good as country, classic, etc. Don't assume and put down inner-city youth by stereotyping with their music tastes either.
#85
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Originally Posted by thunder
Masatoshi Ichikawa (team Frank-Toyo)participated in the Giro Ichikawa finished at the 50th overall out of 163 finishers
Hong Kong's Kam-Po Wong has 8 UCI wins this year.
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Originally Posted by SaintAndrew
i was completely utterly ****ing around with that statement it was not meant to induce any responses, but you bring up a strang point that asians don't have the easy-living of europe or the US, but i would have to argue that it's completely irrelevent. cycling is a blue-collar sport and has been from the beginning and it's a well-known that almost all pro cyclists come from some challenging background. cipollini was sickly and was not expected to live as a child. indurain grew up on a basque country farm. armstrong from a housing project born to a 17 year old abused mother. and these are just a few of the very greatest cyclists from the recent past.
i just think bike racing as a sport is not developed in asia right now.
i just think bike racing as a sport is not developed in asia right now.
Dude!!!! Cycling is a blue collar sport? I don't think so. How many blue collars is going to lay out a 1000 bucks to bike? The average new low end road bike runs 700 bucks, helmet 40, shoes 80, gloves 20, socks 6, shorts 50, jersey 40.......
All cyclist begin on a trike...then move up to the 3 speed, then to the bmx-type bike....but then most blue collars stop there and move on to the beat up chevy or dodge truck. There are few that venture in the mountain bike world.... to make the leap to competition level or even performance road cycling requires some investment in time and money.
#87
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Originally Posted by twbradford
Dude!!!! Cycling is a blue collar sport? I don't think so. How many blue collars is going to lay out a 1000 bucks to bike? The average new low end road bike runs 700 bucks, helmet 40, shoes 80, gloves 20, socks 6, shorts 50, jersey 40.......
Merckx was unusual in that his parents were middle class shopkeepers. In the 1980's Visentini was considered very unusual because he was the playboy son of a rich funeral home operator. Most top riders up until then were poor farm boys, sons of coal miners, sons of factory workers, that kind of thing. Even an urbane person like Anquetil who mixed with movie stars was a son of a Norman farmer.
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Originally Posted by PrfectHair4ever
The average person living in Bangkok also has about 1/50th the income as a person living in the western world... that just shows your ignorance
I spent six years living in Bangkok . . . there is little to no interest in competitive cycling among Thais. And because of the insane Thai drivers, we farangs who did it were either insane, or destined for the ER or morgue.
I ended up in the ER.
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__________________
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
#89
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Originally Posted by 0810
when i bike, i do occasionally see blacks in tights and jerseys biking on nice road bikes, with road shoes too and cycle comp, there are some out there.
__________________
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
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Originally Posted by jimx200
"All black kids are poor"? Sounds patronizing and a little racist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
My BLACK kids are NOT poor.
They don't play basketball.
They don't listen to cRap music.
They dont' dress like gang bangers.
They live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have variously graduated from West Point, UT, Kellog School of Business and the youngest are home schooled and believe it or not, play with children of ALL races, creeds and ethnic groups.
Don't judge black people by the stereotypes on MTV, NBC, CBS and other slimeball media outlets. We're not all Crips or Bloods.
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
--------------------------------------------
__________________
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
------------------------------------
Armstrong never got caught cheating.
That probably makes him as good a cheater as a cyclist.
-- Some guy at the Dallas Crits
#91
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Originally Posted by classic1
Cycling is definitely a blue collar sport. It's also a European sport. Where you from? The US? The demographics of the traditional supporters/competitors of cycling in Europe are completely different to the US, where it is considered a yuppie or middle age rich dude sport.
Merckx was unusual in that his parents were middle class shopkeepers. In the 1980's Visentini was considered very unusual because he was the playboy son of a rich funeral home operator. Most top riders up until then were poor farm boys, sons of coal miners, sons of factory workers, that kind of thing. Even an urbane person like Anquetil who mixed with movie stars was a son of a Norman farmer.
Merckx was unusual in that his parents were middle class shopkeepers. In the 1980's Visentini was considered very unusual because he was the playboy son of a rich funeral home operator. Most top riders up until then were poor farm boys, sons of coal miners, sons of factory workers, that kind of thing. Even an urbane person like Anquetil who mixed with movie stars was a son of a Norman farmer.
I would agree that in Europe cycling is an activity of the people.
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Originally Posted by iluvfreebeer
+1
My BLACK kids are NOT poor.
They don't play basketball.
They don't listen to cRap music.
They dont' dress like gang bangers.
They live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have variously graduated from West Point, UT, Kellog School of Business and the youngest are home schooled and believe it or not, play with children of ALL races, creeds and ethnic groups.
Don't judge black people by the stereotypes on MTV, NBC, CBS and other slimeball media outlets. We're not all Crips or Bloods.
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
--------------------------------------------
My BLACK kids are NOT poor.
They don't play basketball.
They don't listen to cRap music.
They dont' dress like gang bangers.
They live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have variously graduated from West Point, UT, Kellog School of Business and the youngest are home schooled and believe it or not, play with children of ALL races, creeds and ethnic groups.
Don't judge black people by the stereotypes on MTV, NBC, CBS and other slimeball media outlets. We're not all Crips or Bloods.
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
--------------------------------------------
#93
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Originally Posted by iluvfreebeer
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
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Originally Posted by jimx200
"All black kids are poor"? Sounds patronizing and a little racist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
"Only interested in basketball and rap"? Go visit a local elementary, jr. high, or high school and you'll quickly see you are dead wrong. Man, where do you live? Whites only?
"No chance to go to school and grow to have a normal life"? Where do you come up with this crap? Sounds very patronizing and elitist.
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Originally Posted by bellweatherman
Don't assume that all inner city kids are black. There are other minorities as well. You think they can afford designer jeans, let alone an entry-level racing bike? I don't think so. Spare me the basketball and rap stereotype. A basketball sure does cost a LOT less money than a bike. And rap is good music. As good as country, classic, etc. Don't assume and put down inner-city youth by stereotyping with their music tastes either.
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Originally Posted by iluvfreebeer
+1
My BLACK kids are NOT poor.
They don't play basketball.
They don't listen to cRap music.
They dont' dress like gang bangers.
They live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have variously graduated from West Point, UT, Kellog School of Business and the youngest are home schooled and believe it or not, play with children of ALL races, creeds and ethnic groups.
Don't judge black people by the stereotypes on MTV, NBC, CBS and other slimeball media outlets. We're not all Crips or Bloods.
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
--------------------------------------------
My BLACK kids are NOT poor.
They don't play basketball.
They don't listen to cRap music.
They dont' dress like gang bangers.
They live in an upper middle class neighborhood and have variously graduated from West Point, UT, Kellog School of Business and the youngest are home schooled and believe it or not, play with children of ALL races, creeds and ethnic groups.
Don't judge black people by the stereotypes on MTV, NBC, CBS and other slimeball media outlets. We're not all Crips or Bloods.
Typical liberal racist crap!!!!
Liberals are the most intolerant people on the planet.
--------------------------------------------
Iluvfreebeer says that his home schooled kids play with kids of ALL races and creeds and ethnic groups. In that upper middle class neighborhood? Mt knee jerk reaction to that is its a bit of an exagerration. But here's a challenge: what are the first names of their Coptic friends?
All said and done, I certainly don't apologize for your misunderstanding of my original post, nor for your ability to only see only negativity, nor for your assumptions that I'm "white", that I've never lived in the "inner city", that I'm "liberal", "intolerant", or that I waste my time listening to talking heads on TV, most especially MTV.
Are you the one doing the home schooling?
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Originally Posted by smellygary
Which is exactly the point I was trying to make! (Re-read the post I was responding to with that post.)
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Originally Posted by allez
I resent those statements. Do you know what the word "liberal" means? It refers to people who are open to new behavior or opinions and willing to discard traditional beliefs or stereotypes that unfortunately run rampant in this country. Our conservative government are the people who are trying to ban gay marriage and kick people out of the country left and right. That doesn't sound very tolerant, does it? Were you one of the 8% of the African-American population that voted for Bush?
As a former "liberal", I came to realize the MOST intolerant and bigoted people all had one thing in common...they proclaimed to be liberal. It was their way of thinking or you are not enlightened, progressive, or you are a gay basher. They believe that all blacks, mexicans, etc. are alike in they cannot do it themselves and need affirmative action, need a lower level to pass minimum school test standards, and believe that their color is their cross to bear. Sorry, I am old enough to clearly see the liberal bastions of the country as they truly are: Kennedys, Boxer, Schummer, and don't forget Kerry (our very own, authentic War Hero), et all. Maybe time for an extended visit outside the US (a week in Cancun does'nt count) to get a bigger view of the universe.
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Originally Posted by jimx200
As a former "liberal", I came to realize the MOST intolerant and bigoted people all had one thing in common...they proclaimed to be liberal. It was their way of thinking or you are not enlightened, progressive, or you are a gay basher. They believe that all blacks, mexicans, etc. are alike in they cannot do it themselves and need affirmative action, need a lower level to pass minimum school test standards, and believe that their color is their cross to bear. Sorry, I am old enough to clearly see the liberal bastions of the country as they truly are: Kennedys, Boxer, Schummer, and don't forget Kerry (our very own, authentic War Hero), et all. Maybe time for an extended visit outside the US (a week in Cancun does'nt count) to get a bigger view of the universe.
I've never been able to completely give definition to my political leanings. (Don't tell my parents or my wife--which are on opposite sides of the political fence, but I vote pretty bipartison.) And I think maybe I shouldn't. I'm still just trying to take it all one issue at a time, which gets pretty exhausting after a while. There's all the issues that keep coming back to us, like Scopes, Roe vs. Wade, Euthanasia/Right to Die, and so many others, that are so big in some way and probably will never be decided once and for all, and maybe shouldn't be. They're too big, too important, they deserve the everlasting debate. And Affirmative Action is still in its 2nd generation, but it should have the original desired effect by the end of three generations. Acording to the socialologists anyway. But I might be stepping on toes again!
Back to the thread at hand, sporting in China is going through a major upheaval and redefinition right now, and will continue to be defined for a while yet. The government is letting go of some of the absolute control its had over basically everything (provincial and city politics, business, education, etc.) a little at a time. One of the biggest problems occuring that prevents expansion, or emergence, is that theres a lot of graft and corruption. At every level. The central gov has created a tremdous amount of red tape, and through its own corruption it renders the red tape redundant, but still enforces it. And the attitudinal and cultural walls that need to be circumvented are incredibally complex.
How does all this effect professional bicycle racing in Asia or Asians in Pro racing? Time will tell. A large enough body of people that want it. If they can watch it on TV for free, why pay for it? The current attitude is basically, why pay somebody to ride a bike, when so many of us do it for free? "Ridnig bicycles is for peasents; anybody that has a real job takes the company shuttle bus to work."
And participation in sports is basically "silly kid stuff," and is left for the Olys or Championship type events. For the people that go to University, its graduate and get a nice job, a nice apt and get married. For people without the oppurtunity to go to school for very long, its find whatever job that pays best, get some sort of living arrangement, and get married. Other than badminton and ping pong, sports participation doesn't really exist in common Chinese lifestyles.
The other issues is that there's still not a whole heck of a lot of media coverage of international sports like pro racing. Even in the populations you might expect to find interest in it. Unfortunately, if there aren't Chinese athletes doing well in it, it just doesn't get coverage.