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Floyd Landis - Is it possible...

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Floyd Landis - Is it possible...

Old 08-05-06, 04:52 PM
  #26  
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Frankly I believe most, if not all, of the riders are doping. If that is the case, then everyone is once again on a level playing field, albeit a doped up one. Going on that assumption, Floyd would still be the best of the doped riders.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by TCR
1) Somebody in the Phonak camp did this to Landis without him knowing it?

2) The UCI lab is corrupt?
Is it possible? Sure.

But is it possible that he actually doped and got caught? Isn't that explanation a lot more likely, considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that a large percentage of the Pro peloton seems to have a connection to doping? nah, must be those pesky French out to get us Come on, face facts...
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Old 08-05-06, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Miller2
Frankly I believe most, if not all, of the riders are doping. If that is the case, then everyone is once again on a level playing field, albeit a doped up one. Going on that assumption, Floyd would still be the best of the doped riders.
But if he's not a very good coverupper, he deserves to lose anyway then.
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Old 08-05-06, 05:04 PM
  #29  
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Yes, it's possible, but then again there are lots of things that are possible.

But I think it's time for everyone to conclude he's guilty. What a shame though because Landis was such a likeable guy and stage 17 was so memorable (at least for a week or so).

I believe there's a potential appeal process, but it's a huge uphill battle. Before the B sample came back positive I believe it was fair to presume him innocent. But now I believe it's fair to presume him guilty.

The best thing that can now happen is tighter controls on doping being created and enforced.
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Old 08-05-06, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by 'nother
Isn't that explanation a lot more likely, considering the overwhelming amount of evidence that a large percentage of the Pro peloton seems to have a connection to doping?
What is this overwhelming amount of evidence? What is a large percentage of the pro peleton? You might want to let the UCI in on your findings.
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Old 08-05-06, 05:18 PM
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If it was all of the dope that made him do so well in stage 17 then I defently need to get some of that stuff.
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Old 08-05-06, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by TCR
What is this overwhelming amount of evidence? What is a large percentage of the pro peleton? You might want to let the UCI in on your findings.
Have you heard of Operation Puerto? The UCI already has . . .
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Old 08-05-06, 06:52 PM
  #33  
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As much as I despise EURO, and would love to believe that Floyd is innocent and it was some bizarre conspiracy, the reality is that it's probably not and Floyd probably doped.

I'll say that the chances of it being a conspiracy are about equal to the chances one could, while clean, bonk on a TdF stage and fall nearly 10 minutes behind, go out drinking, win the next day's stage, and be only 30 seconds behind the GC leader.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:00 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by TCR
Doesn't have to be the entire continent out to get him. Would only take a select few to contaminate a urine sample and report false positives. Do you work for the UCI? Do you work for their lab? Have you ever been to their lab? Is it not possible the lab is behind this?

Do you really 100% believe it's not possible the UCI, or certain individuals in the UCI, are not corrupt? It's certainly a possibility.
With a positive B sample a conspiracy gets a lot harder to believe. For the B sample the innocent rider with suspicions has every right to hire experts to monitor the complete testing procedure from the breaking of the seal on the sample container to the final report. It would be a pretty amazing trick for the French national lab to fool Floyd's experts.

Instead of making statements that sound like they were vigorously pursuing a vindication in the B sample Floyd has been talking like he expected a positive B sample. It looks like he'll be pursuing a variation on the Tyler Hamilton defense, trying to prove that whatever they found was natural for him. I don't like his chances at that.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by steve_wmn
With a positive B sample a conspiracy gets a lot harder to believe. For the B sample the innocent rider with suspicions has every right to hire experts to monitor the complete testing procedure from the breaking of the seal on the sample container to the final report. It would be a pretty amazing trick for the French national lab to fool Floyd's experts.

Instead of making statements that sound like they were vigorously pursuing a vindication in the B sample Floyd has been talking like he expected a positive B sample. It looks like he'll be pursuing a variation on the Tyler Hamilton defense, trying to prove that whatever they found was natural for him. I don't like his chances at that.
Is there any information though, as to whether or not Floyd had people monitor the handling of the "B" sample? And for another take on things, couldn 't someone have spiked it after he provided the sample and before it was sealed?
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Old 08-05-06, 07:21 PM
  #36  
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I think we run a real risk of ending up in very serious sour grapes territory here. It sucks when it is your guy that gets popped, but hopefully this can be used as a start to cleaning up pro cycling. Landis, and more importantly Phonak (how many failed tests are they up to now?), should be banned from cycling. Is it likely that other riders dope? Absolutely, but the line must be drawn somewhere.

Let's not do the ugly Americans about this and congratulate Mr. Pereiro.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:25 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Kurto
The issue is that, yes, Floyd cheated. No this is not a conspiracy. Do you guys really believe that? Honestly? I was as bummed as anybody after Stage 16, then totally pumped after 17. Floyd was my cycing hero for like a week. I thought he was clean, but tests proving exogenous testosterone proved me wrong. And I'm not going to believe he's the victim of some Anti-American conspiracy. That's really just silly and childish. I believe most of these guys are doping. Almost all top-level athletes are. I don't care who's failed drug tests. Failed drug tests are anomolies. These sports (this extends to American sports like baseball and football) involve so much money, especially when compared to the budgets of WADA and USADA. It's unreal. Even the anti-dopers admit that the drug cheats are generally a couple years ahead of the testers. It's a rare case, based almost entirely on luck, when the USADA stumbles upon a new, undectable drug. See Patrick Arnold and the BALCO case for more on this.

Floyd got caught. Now he has to deal with the consequences. Let's all knock off the notion that somebody (especially an entire continent of people) is out to get him. The King is dead. Long live the King.
+1, sadly. Time to admit it.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:31 PM
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Regardless ... I'm pretty bummed and dissapointed in the final result.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcycl
Regardless ... I'm pretty bummed and dissapointed in the final result.
+ all sorts of 1.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcycl
Regardless ... I'm pretty bummed and dissapointed in the final result.
Definitely. Remember when we all thought this was the best Tour we'd ever seen? Stage 17 should have gone down as the best one-day performance ever. Now it goes in the same file as Mark McGwire and Sammy Sosa in 1998.
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Old 08-05-06, 07:43 PM
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At least we can remember it for the great sprinting of Mcewan.

Then again, he's to small to be that fast. Must be on drugs.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:00 PM
  #42  
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Is it as simple as a patch, a shot, or a drop of powder in the oatmeal? In less than 5 seconds, an entire life time of training is poof? Come on!
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Old 08-05-06, 08:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by rgerve
At least we can remember it for the great sprinting of Mcewan.

Then again, he's to small to be that fast. Must be on drugs.
McEwen's big trick isn't drugs it's his Harry Potter invisibility cloak, so that he can hide in the peleton until the last seconds of the race.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by EURO
Both Millar and Wiggins are clean riders. Unlike the filthy cheating Americans
Why are you so certain Millar and Wiggins are clean, EURO? Just curious.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:24 PM
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By all accounts so far, it appears Floyd had a synthetic form of T in he pee.

Wrong? Yes.

As far as his performance in stage 17, keep in mind his T level was low-normal for an adult male. Even if he partook of some testosterone, it is not likely that it helped him that much in the stage.

What helped him win it was the fact that he took a gamble making a break early in the stage, which paid off for him.

There are several riders in the peloton who could have taken off with him and kept up, but they were not willing to take the risk.

He took a chance and it paid off, plain and simple, he wasn't Superman for a day because he took T.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:45 PM
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The conspiracy thing doesn't make sense. The UCI has nothing to gain by publicly crapping on its largest, most publicized, super-international event.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:50 PM
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The tour de france was kicking dopers and suspected dopers out left and right this year. Some at the beginning and some at the end. What's the big deal? Landis wouldn't have won anyway if the better riders weren't booted before the start.
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Old 08-05-06, 08:51 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Snicklefritz
Is there any information though, as to whether or not Floyd had people monitor the handling of the "B" sample? And for another take on things, couldn 't someone have spiked it after he provided the sample and before it was sealed?
1. He said he would on Larry King.
2. When he closed the lid on his cup, it was sealed. I have designed tamper-proof cups for drugs of abuse testing (you know, the random test at work). Although I would never say never, the likeliness of tampering with the B sample is the same as me get hit by a meteor before I finish this sentence.

My .02. The existing evidence alone shows guilt, but I will certainly give Floyd a chance to defend himself before before rendering a final judgement. I don't think it is likely (see odds above), but he should be afforded the right to make a case it was "natural".
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Old 08-05-06, 09:10 PM
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I saw something a couple days ago (think it was on the Procycling site) saying the Spanish Civil Guard was investigating possible links between Fuentes and Landis.

I remember seeing in a prior post Smoothie indicating the likelihood of a transfusion as being low but I wonder if Floyd got some of Dr. Fuentes 98% clean blood a la Tyler et al. I can't believe Floyd fell asleep and left a patch on too long or the masseur used too much topical test.

Note: this post is not intended to shift the source of blame from Floyd (or someone from the US) to another (or to a foreigner) but rather to suggest a possible cause for the positive as Fuentes seems to have a [recently] poor record for scrubbing blood adequately.
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Old 08-05-06, 09:15 PM
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none of this matters

in 4 years
after all suspensions, Floyd will still be young enough
to stomp all comers. wait for it
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