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Something is wrong, very wrong. Your 2 cents wanted here

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Something is wrong, very wrong. Your 2 cents wanted here

Old 08-05-06, 03:47 PM
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Something is wrong, very wrong. Your 2 cents wanted here

My slump continues...but is it the chicken or the egg?

Again, I took three days off in a row this week while my Klein was getting serviced, including new tires. I went out on my usual ride Friday for the first time on the bike since then and it sucked. I felt terrible. My legs were heavy, no power, felt like I was riding in quick sand.

Some wrote it off as too much time off or a bad day. And I wondered how much the tire change could have meant.

I did the same route this afternoon and felt pretty much the same.
Here's the best description I can give you:

I train at 90 rpm, and on the flat sections could pretty much hold 90 rpm in the big chain ring up front and in the third or fourth easiest gear on the cassette in back. It wasn't hard work to do that.

Since I got the bike back, I feel like I'm working a ton just to maintain 90rpm in those same sections. Every time I look down at my cadence I see it fading to 88-87-86...and then I huff and I puff and work like crazy with aching legs to get it back up to 90.

It's like I am riding in quick sand or something.

Chicken or the egg?
Is something just going on with my body/legs that I am weakened all of the sudden?

OR

Am I weakening my legs because indeed I AM working harder because those tires have more resistence?

Again, I went from a slick Michelin (do not have the exact name of the type because the sidewalls are worn out) to a Conti 3000 model.

I feel like the bike has no acceleration now....not much glide...and all I have are heavy, sore legs working too hard to make too little happen.

I'm thinking I give it one more ride to see what happens, but if this continues I'm ordering a new pair of my old Michelins and call it a costly mistake.

p.s.
I miss going fast. I have learned after several years of riding that my favorite thing is to go fast. I'm not a distance/touring guy. I like to accelerate....I like to pass people....I like to check my average speed as a gauge of how I am doing. I know a lot of people don't like that approach, but it is what makes me happiest on a bike I have learned, so I'm going back to my roots after I complete this century attempt later this month. I want the fastest bike I can build and I want to ride 25-35 mile rides mostly.
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Old 08-05-06, 03:59 PM
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if you don't haveany health problems it sounds like over training.
take a week-two weeks off, yea it is hard to do especially since you have a regimented routine, but try it anyway.In those two weeks do one recovery ride slow 14-18 mph just spin to keep your legs loose
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Old 08-05-06, 04:05 PM
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you must have forgotten to put on your scrotal testosterone patch.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:06 PM
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I just swapped out my tires for some Rubino's and my last couple of rides have felt similar to what you describe.

I didn't see a mention of wind in your post. It's been pretty windy on my loop the last couple of days so thats what I'm blaming until it calms down a little.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:07 PM
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Hammer...

No health problems. All those variables are the same as before all this started....eating, drinking, sleeping....all the same....no changes that could cause any of this.

Thanks for your 2 cents on this. It's driving me banana freakin' crazy right now. Mrs. Hip can't stand me because I'm a real lemon to be around now because I'm so thrown by this. Totally frustrated.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:08 PM
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It'd be easy to find out something's wrong if you had a powermeter. I felt like crap the last few days and had the numbers to prove it. I was taking antibiotics.

Anyway, several current Michelin tires have among the lowest rolling resistance whereas the Conti 3000 has pretty high rolling resistance. This, too, can be quantified with a powermeter otherwise you'll go nuts thinking it's just in your head.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:10 PM
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Hard to say about the training without knowing your regimen Hip. IT's possible you've overtrained a bit and need a little more time off. Everyone's body responds differently. Don't let it get you down. I always feel sluggish the first ride or two back after taking three or more days off. But so many factors could be affecting you.

As for the tires.... and this is just personal opinion here: I've tried Vreds, Bonty Race X Lites, Gp3000s, Michelin carbons and Michelin Pro2 race for tires. IMO... the MichelinPro2 Race tires have the most "snap" or quick feel to them, which like you I also prefer. The other tires were O.K. but I've not found a tire yet that I like better. Tires do make a failry significant difference in the way a bike feels. I run the Pro2 on all my raod bikes now and love them. The Conti felt sluggish to me. Again my opinion only.

One last note....Have you visually checked over the whole bike and make sure something silly like a brake being set a little too close isn't making you go slow? I know it seems crazy, but it happens.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by HWS
I just swapped out my tires for some Rubino's and my last couple of rides have felt similar to what you describe.

I didn't see a mention of wind in your post. It's been pretty windy on my loop the last couple of days so thats what I'm blaming until it calms down a little.

Wind IS a wildcard.
12-15 today...headwind going out....cross coming back. It didn't make it any easier, but again, I've dealt with it before.

You comment about feeling that way after a tire change interests me though. Could this actually be it???

Any others go through this after a tire brand switch?

Man, IF that's it, then my next question is going to be, "OK, what's the fastest tire I can put on my Klein?"

Look, I'm no speed racer. The guys who have ridden with me from here at BF can tell you that. But Jesus, I want to be able to ride comfortably at 19-20 mph like I used to....low 20's in a pack or paceline with some get up and go....not this quicksand/tired legs crap I have felt the last two rides.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:11 PM
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Something you ate?

Or didn't eat?
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Old 08-05-06, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Treefox
Something you ate?

Or didn't eat?
Nope.
No changes there.

That can be eliminated as a possible cause.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:22 PM
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any meds. that you are taking, blood pressure, antibiotics, , anything?
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Old 08-05-06, 04:25 PM
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I say put some Michelins back on it. You can always sell the Contis to someone or throw them on ebay. The probably stil have the fuzzies on them right?
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Old 08-05-06, 04:30 PM
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Hip:

I switched from Conti's to Michelin Pro race 2's a month or so back and I was amazed at the difference. I felt 1-2 MPH faster with the pro race's. Ride felt smoother, faster , cornering was better, the whole ride from start to finish was more pleasurable. Cant explain it, but I noticed it.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:30 PM
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Hip-

I have ridden both Conti GP 3000 tires and Mich Pro Race 2's and while I like the Pro Race 2's more, the difference in tires cannot explain the magnitude of the drop in performance that you are seeing. In fact, I have just put a used Conti GP 3000 on the rear of my road bike as a stop gap because I've worn out a Pro Race 2 and I've had one of my strongest weeks of the year riding.

Are you still monitoring your resting heart rate? If it is elevated that is a sure sign of overtraining.

I'm going to make a wild-ass guess here. Are you stressing out over this century ride coming up? Is your subconscience manufacturing an excuse not to try?
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Old 08-05-06, 04:31 PM
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I second what mollusk said about the heart rate. Check it. If if your resting heart rate is higher than what it usually is, you might be overtraining.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by cycle17
I say put some Michelins back on it. You can always sell the Contis to someone or throw them on ebay. The probably stil have the fuzzies on them right?
17---They do! They only have 52 miles on them and still have the little bead on them.
the word you used...'SNAP" feel with the Michelins...that's EXACTLY what I feel is missing here.

These Conti's feel sluggish or bulky....but maybe I'm just reaching out to find blame other than my goofy legs?

Again...no meds....no health changes....no diet or drink changes....all those variables are steady.

I DID look at the brakes and the wheels appear to be flowing freely, so that's not it.

Three days off and poof?
A bad stretch from over-training?
OR
The tires?

I think that's what it is coming down to.

I'd love to blame the tires....that's a $70.00 mistake if it is though!
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Old 08-05-06, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Hipcycler
Wind IS a wildcard.
12-15 today...headwind going out....cross coming back. It didn't make it any easier, but again, I've dealt with it before.

You comment about feeling that way after a tire change interests me though. Could this actually be it???

Any others go through this after a tire brand switch?

Man, IF that's it, then my next question is going to be, "OK, what's the fastest tire I can put on my Klein?"

Look, I'm no speed racer. The guys who have ridden with me from here at BF can tell you that. But Jesus, I want to be able to ride comfortably at 19-20 mph like I used to....low 20's in a pack or paceline with some get up and go....not this quicksand/tired legs crap I have felt the last two rides.
My loop is 34 miles and the last two days have been pretty breezy, 10-15 out of the east, headwind out.
Anytime I start out that loop with a headwind like that, it kills my time/speed for that route and by the time I get to my halfway point, where I start to pick up a tailwind, I feel pretty worn out.
On a "typical" day, wind 5-7 out of the southwest, I can knock this loop out around 1:40 -1:45. A day like today 1:50 if I'm lucky.

YMMV of course. I'm not ready to swap out my Rubino's yet. The tread color matches my bike
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Old 08-05-06, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by mollusk
Hip-

I have ridden both Conti GP 3000 tires and Mich Pro Race 2's and while I like the Pro Race 2's more, the difference in tires cannot explain the magnitude of the drop in performance that you are seeing. In fact, I have just put a used Conti GP 3000 on the rear of my road bike as a stop gap because I've worn out a Pro Race 2 and I've had one of my strongest weeks of the year riding.

Are you still monitoring your resting heart rate? If it is elevated that is a sure sign of overtraining.

I'm going to make a wild-ass guess here. Are you stressing out over this century ride coming up? Is your subconscience manufacturing an excuse not to try?

I DO check RHR....it has been steady at 48 this week, which is where it usually is.

Now, you HAVE brought up one new angle here....

Are you stressing out over this century ride coming up? Is your subconscience manufacturing an excuse not to try?

Now THAT's deep!
I'm still pinning this on the tires!
Except your post about using the conti 3's and still having a great week says volumes.

Then again, several others have mentioned that they felt the tires I used to have were faster than the Conti's felt.

AAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGG...I'm a wreck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 08-05-06, 04:41 PM
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The Contis never accelerated like the Michelin Pro2s in my opinion. THe Michelins having more snap is to me at least a very accurate description. Oddly enough I got a piece of sharp metal in my rear tire this past week and while I'm waiting for a replacement Pro2 to come in...I threw a Bonty Race X Lite (only had about 500 miles on it) back on the back of my training bike as a stop gap. I CAN notice a big difference. While that's not a bad tire, it just doesn't have the sweet handling of the Mich and the get up and go/"snap" when I'm hard on the pedals. So to me...there is a noticeable difference.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:50 PM
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I think this falls into the "it happens" box. Check with your coach re overtraining to see if you're exhibiting the tell tale HR signs beyond RHR. But I think you just have to ride through it. Maybe change up routine - try a 50 mile ride with your computer taped over, try some bad-ass hill repeats.

I always hit a slump around this time of year; probably compounded by the heat.

And don't sweat the century. Think of it as a series of short rides to rest stops with all you can eat, free food and drink.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:51 PM
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I ride a few different tires depending on what wheelset/bike I choose for the day. I run Continental Force/Attacks, GP 4000's, Carbons, and Pro Race 2. Even though I am a big fan of the Pro Race 2's, I don't think that could be a factor in dead legs or sluggish feeling. I do the same rides, have approximately the same averages and HR no matter what tire I use. My wheels with my Pro Race 2's are in the shop right now waiting for a new spoke so I have been alternating between two sets; one with Force/Attacks, the other with GP4000's. I have noticed no change by using any of the tires that I mentioned.

Hip -- Have you considered easing back into your normal routine? Do a couple of rides at an easier pace than you usually do to get your legs back.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:56 PM
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Ok I know I told ya the contis were the jam(and they are as far as durability) but im running a michelin pro2 on the front and theresa Noticeable difference. The michelin has a muchhigher profile that the conti, and the conti tends to have a larger contact patch. I dont see the conti making as much of a difference as you are describing, but it might be contributing a little.
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Old 08-05-06, 04:56 PM
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overtraining?doubt it

My legs felt like jello or lead for about 9 months straight and about 10,000 miles when I got started, I rode thru it and it went away and never came back, but then again, im on the "must ride or starve" training plan, and I dont take time off so it wont be coming back either. If I had given in to the "overtraining" excuse Id still be struggling to do 200 miles a week, seriously.

you give up now and you wont get past this plateau, and you take time off for winter and your back at square one come spring, cycling fitness is one insatiable beast to feed
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Old 08-05-06, 05:01 PM
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Switch to lower gear and spin more .. it's good for the body. And you still get to ride. Perhaps temper the expectations a little bit. Unless you are a racer.

Every ride is a good one without worrying about your performance .. reset your goals. The other day I did my same long flattish ride in a much lower gear and my average speed actually went up ..
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Old 08-05-06, 05:05 PM
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your rear brake is rubbing... i forgot to tell you.
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