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The Perfect Carbon Aero Wheel

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The Perfect Carbon Aero Wheel

Old 08-09-06, 08:41 AM
  #1  
Ironman Dave
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The Perfect Carbon Aero Wheel

Hi
I am looking at getting an expensive pair of aero wheels. They will be used for 112mile time trials (Ironman) over differing terrain.

I have come to the conclusion that this is the best option
ZIPP 404 rims.
CX-Ray spokes
Tune Hubs

The cost is approx £1200 / $2000. and will weigh just ove 1.1kg for the pair (excluding cassette & QR)

These will be tubs for lightness and will only be used for racing

Any other ideas?

Dave
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Old 08-09-06, 09:33 AM
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808's would be faster, but a bit more of a handful in cross winds. Fastest set up is a rear disc, and either a front trispoke, or very deep dish like 808. However, at least Kona doesn't allow a disc for the Iron man.
Also, if it's your only set of wheels there may be wind conditions where you don't want to ride a disc.

For one set of all around wheels, 404's are a good choice, but why not just buy a stock set of 404's? Cheaper than your proposal, warranted by Zipp, you'll know they were assembled well, and any weight difference would be inconsequential.
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Old 08-09-06, 09:35 AM
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I am just amazed that they are $2000.................damn, that's a bike!
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Old 08-09-06, 09:46 AM
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I forget to mention ZIPP UK will build the wheels so they get the warranty
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Old 08-09-06, 10:02 AM
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Damn that is just a whole insane amount of money...

And let us Tri people unite in the Triathlon forum so we have people to talk to...
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Old 08-09-06, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by msheron
I am just amazed that they are $2000.................damn, that's a bike!
Not my bike ;-)
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Old 08-09-06, 11:46 AM
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I'd probably go with the 808's
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Old 08-09-06, 11:51 AM
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i'll throw in a vote for a set of 606 wheels. if you don't know, its a 404 front and a 808 rear, to make what might be the best all-around wheelset for all conditions.
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Old 08-09-06, 01:57 PM
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Hi Guys
my rational for the 404 is: Most of the courses I ride have between 4500 & 9000 foot of climbing. I was looking for the best aero with weight considerations.

But i like the suggestions

ps
40 somthing - no kids - very understanding wife.
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Old 08-09-06, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Ironman Dave
I am looking at getting an expensive pair of aero wheels. They will be used for 112mile time trials (Ironman) over differing terrain.
Geez...


Originally Posted by Ironman Dave
Any other ideas?
Yeah. How about a Yamaha.

I could not imagine doing a 112 mi TT. Hats off to you.
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Old 08-09-06, 02:08 PM
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Hed Stingers?
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Old 08-09-06, 02:10 PM
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Any other ideas?
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Old 08-09-06, 02:20 PM
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^^^ +1
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Old 08-09-06, 03:13 PM
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EURO has the right idea. +much.
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Old 08-09-06, 03:54 PM
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HED'S are a lot cheaper, and seem to be of very high quality. Also check cyclingnews.com on a recent letter regarding an MIT wind tunnel test that shows aero wheels to be about as affective as those aero helmets, glueing your number, etc..
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Old 08-09-06, 04:52 PM
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There is no question the lightweights are better all around wheels than a set of 404s. They are lighter and much stronger. But, they are not more aero.... for a TT I would not hesitate to go with a wheelset build off of Zipp rims. The Tune hubs are excellent choices is you are under 190 lbs or so and won't be riding them in the wet too much.... CX-Ray spokes are the best there are.

I'd think about using a 404 front, 808 rear as well. Honestly, why not just get the ones with Zipp hubs? They are better hubs than the Tune (or at least as good). You could get the build you mentioned for about $1200 USD over here.... Maybe you should have them built here and have them shipped to you.
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Old 08-09-06, 05:16 PM
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you can get the ritchey carbons, or american classic carbons for maybe less $$ they both use the 404 rim, (older non dimpled)
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Old 08-09-06, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by briscoelab
There is no question the lightweights are better all around wheels than a set of 404s. They are lighter and much stronger. But, they are not more aero.... for a TT I would not hesitate to go with a wheelset build off of Zipp rims. The Tune hubs are excellent choices is you are under 190 lbs or so and won't be riding them in the wet too much.... CX-Ray spokes are the best there are.

I'd think about using a 404 front, 808 rear as well. Honestly, why not just get the ones with Zipp hubs? They are better hubs than the Tune (or at least as good). You could get the build you mentioned for about $1200 USD over here.... Maybe you should have them built here and have them shipped to you.
Strength data?
I would go with a set of 606 wheels myself, as mentioned here with the Zipp hubs. We just had a wheelset returned with Tune hubs that had flanges that were rotating about the remainder of the hub body. Perhaps an isolated case but it didn't inspire much confidence.
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Old 08-09-06, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Waldo
Strength data?
I would go with a set of 606 wheels myself, as mentioned here with the Zipp hubs. We just had a wheelset returned with Tune hubs that had flanges that were rotating about the remainder of the hub body. Perhaps an isolated case but it didn't inspire much confidence.
Hey, I ride a set of 404s that have been put through some serious use.... several races... pot holes.... I even had to jump a curb once... and they have held up great. But... I had mine built with the Pave rim, but with the standard road spoke count. I love LOVE my Zipps... but they just aren't as strong as a set of Lightweights... especially the standards. I of course don't have numbers for actualy lab tests.... but take a look at weight weenies and see how many wheels using the Zipp rims have problems. Plus I've seen more than a few sets broken. The problem with delamination at the braking surface is a well documented problem, that I hope has finally been sorted out. But, I think a lot of this has to do with the sheer number of Zipp rims out there though more than anything else. But, if you've ever seen a Lightweight in person it's pretty clear that they are in a whole other class. But of course, they should be for the freaking cost!! There's no doubt that Zipp has much more aero wheels though... and in a TT you hsouldn't be running over pot holes or jumping curbs ;-) Zipps are a no-brainer here.
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Old 08-09-06, 06:25 PM
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Zipp Z8's with the sweet ceramic bearings.


The Xentis looks cool though.
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Old 08-09-06, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by briscoelab
Hey, I ride a set of 404s that have been put through some serious use.... several races... pot holes.... I even had to jump a curb once... and they have held up great. But... I had mine built with the Pave rim, but with the standard road spoke count. I love LOVE my Zipps... but they just aren't as strong as a set of Lightweights... especially the standards. I of course don't have numbers for actualy lab tests.... but take a look at weight weenies and see how many wheels using the Zipp rims have problems. Plus I've seen more than a few sets broken. The problem with delamination at the braking surface is a well documented problem, that I hope has finally been sorted out. But, I think a lot of this has to do with the sheer number of Zipp rims out there though more than anything else. But, if you've ever seen a Lightweight in person it's pretty clear that they are in a whole other class. But of course, they should be for the freaking cost!! There's no doubt that Zipp has much more aero wheels though... and in a TT you hsouldn't be running over pot holes or jumping curbs ;-) Zipps are a no-brainer here.
Glad you are enjoying your Zipps. I just wanted to see if there was some data out there that I had missed. Personally, I can attest to the strength of the Zipps and the improvements that have been made recently, particularly in regard to the delamination issue. Hopefully soon there will be some worthwhile data on the subject so that the evaluation is not so subjective. Weight weeneis' forums seem to be down at the moment so I'll have to check those out later.
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Old 08-09-06, 06:49 PM
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If you ride them long enough and hard enough you can break Zipps. I've done it (rear wheel - rough crit after 30 races mostly crits I weigh 185). But I still think they are very reliable for a carbon wheel and since the rebuild with the Pave I've had no problem.

The 808s are not much heavier, I vote for the 808s even with climbing, unless you think crosswinds are a problem.
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Old 08-09-06, 07:16 PM
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Bora's?
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Old 08-09-06, 07:41 PM
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404 front/808 rear w/PT SL would be my vote.
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Old 08-09-06, 08:09 PM
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short of doing a disk combo... if you ride courses with 9000ft of climbing (which is alot on a Tri bike, let alone any bike), stick with 404's or maybe even consider a 303 front with a 404 rear. i'd also throw a vote out for Reynolds deep rims... i've heard great things about those wheels

all in all, what i'm saying is that you need a set wheels that fits the course because you'll gain more time on your competitors going uphill, fast, than you would on a flat course or downhill section
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