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Look Pedals: Keo Carbon Titanium vs. Look Keo Carbon Titanium HM

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Look Pedals: Keo Carbon Titanium vs. Look Keo Carbon Titanium HM

Old 09-12-06, 12:19 PM
  #1  
Ritterview
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Look Pedals: Keo Carbon Titanium vs. Look Keo Carbon Titanium HM

Look sells two types of Keo Carbon Ti pedals, non-HM and HM. The HM is $50 more expensive, and has High Modulus CF which Look claims is 8% stiffer.

Competitive Cyclist sells these pedals at list, but they are available elsewhere at a modest discount, such as $330 for the non-HM pedals. Probikekit.com, as is its wont, has a blow out price on the non-HM pedals.

Since Probikekit's price is so low, I'd just as soon go with the HM, as it would be only $25 dollars more. Unfortunately, Probikekit emailed me that they only sell the non-HM.

Questions:

(1) Does any supplier of Look Keo Carbon Ti pedals have a price approaching Probikekit's?
(2) Does the claimed 8% improvement in stiffness for the HM mean anything?, or should I just snatch the Probikekit bargain and be done with it?

Competitive Cyclist:


Probikekit:
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Old 09-12-06, 12:28 PM
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$400 for pedals is too rich for my blood. I'd get the Sprint and call it a day.
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Old 09-12-06, 12:48 PM
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You are looking at this wrong.

If you look at it in a relative sense, one is a little stiffer than the other.

While the question really is are you strong enough to flex the weaker one. Answer is probably no. So you want to look at this in an absolute sense rather than a relative one. That is, in an absolute sense is one good enough for your ability or not.
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Old 09-12-06, 12:55 PM
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450 is pretty steep for pedals... like Dial tone said- get the sprints and save a ton of cash. The bearings aren't as good but you can buy another pair and STILL come out ahead!

If the few extra grams is really going to make a difference in your riding, then most likely your sponsors are paying for them!
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Old 09-12-06, 01:10 PM
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While the question really is are you strong enough to flex the weaker one. Answer is probably no.
I dunno, I weigh 185 lbs. and go up some very steep grades in which I am torquing away at a cadence of 40 to just move forward. If anyone is flexing them, it might be me.


$400 for pedals is too rich for my blood.
450 is pretty steep for pedals

I am not fixing to buy $450 pedals. Probikekit has them for $198. At a 50% discount, the HM upgrade would be a mere $25, were it available. Look see:

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Old 09-12-06, 01:21 PM
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Frankly, if you weigh 185lbs and sometimes torque your way up hills at 40 strokes per minute, I would stay away from ti spindles, even if LOOK claims there is no weight limit. If you weight 185lbs, I doubt that a few extra grams of pedal weight will be the limiting factor in your speed.
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Old 09-12-06, 01:27 PM
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I have had the cheapo model, Keo classics ($80.00)for over a year now. Can't say I have ever felt them flex or do anything unruly.
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Old 09-12-06, 01:50 PM
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I would stay away from ti spindles, even if LOOK claims there is no weight limit.
I imagine that a sprinter such as Thor Hushovd might generate more torque than even I. This is his Look Keo pedal. I don't know if this is Ti or CrMo steel.




Look Keo pedals - Look started the clipless pedal revolution back in the 1980s and continues to come up with new designs like the lightweight Keo.


http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/20.../look_KU3L0075
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Old 09-12-06, 01:51 PM
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i recently bought these.

Use: Competition
Weight: 230g/pair
Body Material: Injection
Molded Carbon
Spindle Material: CrMo steel
Bearings: 2 sealed bearings, needle bearing
Adjustments: Spring tension,
12-18 Nm
Color: black
Retail Price: $219.99

I do not know if this would be a significant difference, but when I looked @ the Ti/carbon I could not justify the extra dollars.
i weight @ 181 #

I picked these up @ Richardson bike Mart in Dallas for less than $200.00
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Old 09-12-06, 02:09 PM
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While the HM CF pedal body may be 8% stiffer than the non-HM ('injection molded') CF pedal body, does that 8% make up for the difference in stiffness between a titanium spindle and a steel spindle? Assuming the Keo Carbon steel spindle has the same section modulus as the Keo Carbon Ti titanium spindle (which may not be the case), the titanium spindle would be half as stiff as the steel spindle. This is based on Bebop's old article on spindle materials (http://www.bebop.com/old%20web%20tex...edmata101.html.)*

If what I assumed is correct, and you're trying to maximize stiffness over minimizing weight, than the plain old Keo Carbon with a steel spindle may actually be a better bet than the Keo Carbon Ti or Keo Carbon Ti HM. Otherwise, the only meaningful differences between the non-HM and HM Keo Carbon Ti pedals may just be aesthetics and price.

* I only know enough about this stuff to unwittingly make an ass of myself.
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Old 09-12-06, 03:25 PM
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I bought the Look Keo Carbon Chromo pedals without the Titanium axle at ProBikeKit for about $110 as part of a "Kit-Builder" purchase in which I also bought shoes. That's pretty hard to beat if you ask me, and at 115g per pedal they're plenty lightweight for me.

That's where I am on the performance-value curve: Look Keo Carbon Chromo from ProBikeKit.

--Steve
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Old 09-12-06, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by zimbo
I bought the Look Keo Carbon Chromo pedals without the Titanium axle at ProBikeKit for about $110 ...
I did the same. You can't beat the value!

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Old 09-12-06, 04:21 PM
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Ritterview - these types of pedals only make sense as part of a weight weenie project. What is the rest of your bike? I'm sure you can more inexpensively loose weight elsewhere.
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Old 09-12-06, 04:32 PM
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As Euro mentioned, you may get more significant weight loss just by directing your investment into lighter wheels.
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Old 09-12-06, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Drag
I did the same. You can't beat the value!

+10. Great pedals, and I got mine from PBK for $120.
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Old 09-12-06, 04:37 PM
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ill tell you the answer the veltec rep (look pedal distributor) gave me when i asked him what the difference was. "Some people want their pedals to look like they are carbon and not black plastic and usually those people are willing to pay $50-$75 more for the carbon weave look, other than that there is no real difference"
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Old 09-12-06, 05:53 PM
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Hushovd's pedal is either a Keo Carbon Ti or a Keo Carbon CroMo, which appear identical in this view. The Carbon Ti HM has a different look altogether. It is more likely CroMO than Ti, as if Hushovd was to use Ti he presumably would have used the HM.






Look Keo Carbon Ti HM


Look Keo Carbon Ti


Look Keo Carbon CroMo
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Old 09-12-06, 06:11 PM
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$450 for pedals is too much for me. I gotta say, if you are 200# and riding at 40 cadence, you are not going to notice a bit of difference. You need to work on improving cadence, and losing weight.. not off your bike, but off your body.
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Old 09-13-06, 10:08 AM
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$450 for pedals is too much for me.
$450 too would certainly give me pause. But, as I have now shown repeatedly, the Carbon Ti's are available for less than $200.



...you are not going to notice a bit of difference. You need to work on improving cadence, and losing weight.. not off your bike, but off your body.
Yeah, I am going to do all that. Thanks for the sermon. Once I have done that I still want my bike to be as light as possible.
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Old 09-13-06, 10:12 AM
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If you're 200lb, your pedal spindle is not where you want to be saving weight. I've actually bent spindles before on Speedplays and I'm the same weight as you. It doesn't happen often, but why mess with it?

I don't think anyone's trying to give you a sermon, so try not getting defensive. This issue comes up in every single thread about equipment purchase advice, so you really should've seen it coming. Don't get offended if someone tells you there are more effective places to drop weight, because there are.
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Old 09-13-06, 11:31 AM
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Further complicating the matter...

...if you decide a Ti spindle isn't for you, but you still want that cool Keo HM aesthetic at a much more reasonable price, try the Keo Carbon Ironman HM:


They've got steel spindles and weigh the same as the regular Keo Carbon pedals (115g per pedal.) So, they're not as light as the Ti models (95g per pedal), but they are the stiffest of all available options.

Also, they can be had on eBay for $215.
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Old 09-13-06, 11:48 AM
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I got my Carbon Keo's on Ebay for 130. Thats enough to pay for pedals!!
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Old 09-13-06, 03:20 PM
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If you're 200lb, your pedal spindle is not where you want to be saving weight.
But I'm not 200 lbs. I'm 185 lbs, as I stated in Post #5.

I don't think anyone's trying to give you a sermon, so try not getting defensive... Don't get offended ...
No problem, neither defensive nor offended. I am just a tad irritated, when instead of information that might be useful, when I say I am 185 lbs. (at 6' 0") and am interested in a $198 pedal, I get responses clucking with disapproval over the audacity of the 200 lb. Clydesdale wanting to drop $450 on a pedal.

This issue comes up in every single thread about equipment purchase advice, so you really should've seen it coming.
Yeah, I've noticed. It is hard to discuss any weight weenie type issues at BF without people chiming in, with a knowing and disapproving air, about how just a few score grams isn't going to make any difference, and you ought to lose body weight, and it isn't worth the money for them, etc. All of which is beside the point.

It is manifest that a lighter bike is better, and that you cannot have a lighter bike without attention to detail of all the many dozens of parts with which the bike is composed. The lighter pieces might involve trade-offs, such as titanium being flexier than Cro-Moly. That is something else to consider, and all part of the fun of figuring this all out.

I ordered the $198 Carbon Ti pedals from Probikekit, I'll report back if they flex or bend when I go mashing up those steep hills.
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Old 09-13-06, 03:41 PM
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Do report back. As you've seen, doesn't seem anyone has those yet. Hope they work out for ya'!
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Old 09-13-06, 04:08 PM
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Could somebody else please criticize Ritter, i'm too kind to do so.....I like his responses

Good luck with the new purchase by the way, I'm sure it will work out great.
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