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-   -   Where can I find a on-line expert opinion on Record v's DA v's Force (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/234476-where-can-i-find-line-expert-opinion-record-vs-da-vs-force.html)

Ebergram 10-04-06 11:52 PM

Where can I find a on-line expert opinion on Record v's DA v's Force
 
And no I do not have LBS that can allow me to try each out. I'm looking for a opinion not a review on which 2007 shifters and drive line preforms the best.

the beef 10-05-06 12:02 AM

Aghhh.

They're all good. Do you think anyone could give you a definite answer on the 'best'?

People can vouch for this and that feature or this and this material used in their shifter that's 'superior' to the other one, but for everyone guy like that who defends Dura-Ace you'll have a guy who defneds Record with equal gusto. Bottom line: It really boils down to personal taste. Go find some way try em. If you're gonna be making a buying decision between the three (I assume), then you better.

mrfish 10-05-06 04:59 AM

Here's an opinon, now online:

All shift systems on all commercially produced groupsets nowadays work well enough to race, so you can't legitimately use that to make your decision. I've seen pictures of pros riding bikes with Ultegra and Chorus parts, so it really isn't an issue. Do you think you could beat a young Eddy Merckx riding his 5-speed friction shifting Molteni by being on a carbon wonderbike anyway? If so you are either wrong or should be riding the tour.

So, some tips:
- Don't buy the Sram stuff. It looks ugly, is priced really low to OEMs then over priced to end users to make the bikes it's fitted with look good value, which isn't cool, plus I think the finish and quality isn't great
- Buy Dura Ace if you want 'top of the line' but do have a budget. Finish is pretty good and lasts OK.
- Buy Record if you want the 'best', like the idea of having something that will last a long time and don't have a budget. You can see from all the vintage bike threads that the old Campag stuff often looks as good as the day it was new. Buy Centaur if you do have a budget.

My vote is for Campag because
a) it's lighter
b) you can economically replace parts and/or upgrade, e.g. from 9 to 10 speed since all the bits are rebuildable. I am still running 2000 10 speed Record on my race bike after replacing wear parts such as Ergopower springs, a small part in the derailleur, jockey wheels, chain, sprockets, rings. With Shimano I would have been in for at least one set of new shifters and derailleurs already, been stuck in 9 speed, plus I'm confident some other bits would have worn out as well.
c) Although the shifting is less ergonomic in that you sometimes have to move your thumb, braking feels more secure to me

Patriot 10-05-06 05:44 AM

After seeing all of the new '07 gruppos and seeing the specs, I still think the new '07 Campy stuff is the best. I used to think Shimano had a one up on Campy with their hollowtech cranks, but not anymore. The new Ultra-Torques with a hirth joint is engineering with a far superior thought out process. Campy is still top dog, without a doubt. I honestly can't wait to get my hands on the new Record crank for my wifes new bike build.

With the exception to SRAMs single paddle shifting, they have no new ideas to offer in their entire group, and the brakes look like cheap Mavic knock-offs. I was under the initial impression SRAM would have more to offer. Other than a funky new shifter, the rest of group looks boring.

One thing about hte new Campy group. The brakes look anorexic. It kind of bothers me, but they are alot lighter. They look like the old brakes, except hollowed out. It's good for weight, but not for cleaning, with all those nooks and crannies. You might as well dump the cash, and get a set of 0G's in your group to replace the Records. Otherwise when the time comes, I may even consider picking up an '06 set, just because I think they are prettier.

Ryleeryno 10-05-06 05:53 AM

This month's Bicycling magazine has a good write up on the '07 Force vs. the Record.

botto 10-05-06 06:06 AM


Originally Posted by Patriot
I used to think Shimano had a one up on Campy with their hollowtech cranks, but not anymore. The new Ultra-Torques with a hirth joint is engineering with a far superior thought out process.

Campy makes fantastic product, but I wouldn't be so gushing in my praise as to claim that they have a 'superior thought out process'. I guess it helps to have a lead to follow, like they did with the Ergo-Levers follow up, two years after STI came out. When was the last time Campagnolo truly broke new ground - 1949-1950 with their Grand Sport RD?

Maybe it's an idea to wait a few months, and hear/read some real world feedback before we declare the superiority of the Ultra-Torques?

ymmv

BladeGeek 10-05-06 07:10 AM

Price most to least:
SRAM
Campy
DA

Durability:
DA
Campy
SRAM

Weight Least to most:
Campy
SRAM
DA

Bling most to least:
Campy
SRAM
DA

You can re-build Campy not DA but DA it typically more durable. Each shifts different. SRAM....well it is very new and very expensive. I think the real choice to make is either Campy or DA.

stevecaz 10-05-06 08:45 AM

Well Bladegeek gave a good rundown, the beef is right in that nobodys personnal opinion really matters, and Mrfish has good conclusions.

I wanted to "make the leap", and then SRAM insulted everyone with a $540 shifter price tag. To have a Tawainese made shifter cost at least $250 more than Italian made Record without a doubt shows price gouging and marketing stupidity. I really don't care they are made in asia, but at the same time the production costs should also be lower. Also, the Rival shifter which is the same except for the lever costs $190 less than Force. So they are charging $190 for a carbon/magnesium lever instead of aluminum. The only purpose for that $540 price tag is to say "see, see, we're better than Dura-Ace because we cost more".
Well screw SRAM.

I went with Campy Record after using Shimano for 20 years. I also think the new skelton brakes look odd, and I went with the Mavic SSC which without question are the most powerful and nicest brakes I've ever seen. They're also made to mate with Campy since there is no release lever on the brake. I like Campy, but I also liked Shimano. They both have their good points.

L'Orange 10-05-06 09:01 AM

All i know is how they feel in the hand so...

Campy - Smaller brifters which sort of sit in the palms of your hand with limited grip but little interference and heaps of support.

Shimano - Big Brifters that you can really grab onto for heaps of control, comfort and position.

SRAM - Sorta half way but obviously taking a lot from campy's designs.

I personally like Campy and SRAM, as i like the smaller heads of the brifters, and find them quite supportive.

El Diablo Rojo 10-05-06 09:23 AM

As far as performance goes they are pretty equal, however they all get there in different ways. I've ridden DA and Record (have Record on all my bikes). From a performance standpoint they are virtually equal. However ergonomically the Campag hoods fit my hands better so I chose to go that route.

This question is much like 'who makes the best saddle' well the best saddle (or any bike component) is the one that works best for you.

The bottom line is that each one of these gruppo's has some pluses and minuses but in the end they all work very well. So pick the one that fits your body and riding demands the best.


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