slvoid

You still haven't addressed the question. Let me answer it for you, no, you're not able to ride with music as background noise. Stick to training wheels.
If I play my music just low enough that its the same level as the chain noise on my bike, then what you're saying is that you're not able to ride with chain noise? I don't understand how someone who's so distracted that they can't ride with chain noise can go ahead and give advice...

slvoid

I'm gonna repeat Scorer75's question:

How will headphones prevent cars from crashing into you, someone from dooring you, a pedestrian from jumping out at you, a car from passing you too close and clipping you, a truck from turning into you, a car from running a red/stop light and crashing into you?

Save yourself the time because you can't answer any of those.

GuitarWizard

Wearing earplugs actually cuts down the windnoise significantly, and you can hear much better with them in, actually. Especially at speed. But, the main reason that people wear them is so they don't go deaf, not necessarily to hear what's around them. I own a Suzuki V-Strom. What do you have?

The part that really amazes me is that people think that "not being able to hear" is the sole reason not to wear headphones. That's only part of it. Besides, if you're gonna get rear-ended by a car, headphones or not, you're ****ed irregardless. The other part being, it can be sooooo much more easy to space out and not keep 100% of your attention focused to what you're doing by listening to music, particularly when you get into a set rythym for a period of time. It's natural to do so. Since you live in a city, it's a bit different....but when you live in an area that's actually condusive to cycling (like where I live), it can be very, very easy to let your mind wander for a few moments here and there. And...that's when problems occur.

Let's take this past spring for instance....I wasn't wearing headphones obviously, but I was on par to set a personal record on my 35 mile loop. I was pretty much hammering myself into the ground, and while my eyes were pretty much bugging out of my head, and I wasn't seeing really straight.....it happened. Wasn't completely paying attention to what was in front of me (even though I was looking straight ahead), and hit a big, rectangular white granite-type rock that was sitting right on the white line. Had I been paying close attention, I probably would've seen it. But....I didn't, and the next thing I know, I'm being jarred off the bike and onto the middle of the road at over 23 mph. If there was a car right behind me when that happened, I would've been screwed. A concussion, bent front wheel, and minimal road rash was the end result....I got off fairly easy.

What's that have to do with headphones, since headphones weren't involved? Lack of attention. It doesn't really matter how you get to that point.....whether it being from what happened to me, or from an artificial source....but the end result can be the same. Note the fact that I said "can be". I'm sure that there's plenty of people who've worn headphones for years and never had an incident. But..all it takes is that one time.

Personally, I could care less if anyone wears them or not. As long as it doesn't affect me (i.e., someone running into me because they can't hear me yelling at them that I'm passing), I don't care.

GuitarWizard

What's the point of having headphones on then...you'd have the volume damn near off

Besides, there's usually enough wind around here that I can't hear my chain anyway.

slvoid

I have a VERY loud chain.

GuitarWizard

I don't.

Let me know if you can comprehend the point I'm trying to get across in my previous post, and perhaps my "stance" on the issue may make a bit more sense.

slvoid

No place to park one but I have a friend near by with a CBR600 that I use, it's slightly noisier than the R1 I rode, which I don't take above the speed limit. The vent on the shoei tzr helmet seems to grab air and shake my head around like crazy at high speeds (visual and audio impairment).

I understand how losing VISUAL perception or attention can be harmful but depending on the person (this might differ from person to person, the audio portion of the riding sound track might be very insignificant. I've always said this, I never wear headphones when I'm on suburban roads but in the city, esp in traffic, it doesn't make a difference since there's so much noise anyway. The difference to me being that in the suburbs, an audio indicator might be 75% of the warning that you're gonna have of a car coming up while in the city, it makes up 4-5%. So having head phones on or not makes a 1/2% difference here vs. maybe 50% out there.

Like you said, all it takes is 1 time. But then again, getting doored is the same thing, all it takes is 1 time to be thrown out in to traffic too. So at this point, it's like, if it's your time to go, it's your time to go. You might be able to tolerate wind noise more than I do, but I find wind noise MORE distracting than music, which means according to your criteria, I'm actually more dangerous with wind noise than blocking out the wind noise and replacing it with some low level music.

It might be easy to get into a set rythm with fat boy slim in your ear but I'm not sure the brandenburg concertos are the same thing... (not that you'll find me playing that crap while i'm riding).

slvoid

I do comprehend your point but my point is that it seems to make very little difference in terms of how distracting it is, especially in an urban situation.
So here's a compromise, I'd advocate the OP using headphones but he'll have to be listening to a concerto, not fat boy slim.

GuitarWizard

I've never ridden in a city, but I would imagine my head would be darting around so much, that I could be deaf and still be fairly well aware of what's going on around me.

I've always been big on the "if it's your time, it's your time"....BUT....I'd like to be able to say that it wasn't due to inattention on my part. Like I said before....if a car is going to run you down, there's not a whole lot you can do about that. It's almost like wearing a helmet mirror.....they're nice and all, but not the end-all, be-all of avoiding an accident.

Jarery

For what? So i can watch your first solo ride with the training wheels off?
Or are you going to try to impress me with your leet riding skillz?
Maybe your going to try to beat me up? Does your mom know your inviting strangers over?

Thats EXACTLY what i've been saying. You cant ride safely as it is, dont bother trying to ride with earphones. Some of us dont find cycling that hard and dont need to devote 100% attention to avoid running into things.

slvoid

Trust me... if you're dead, whether it was due to inattention or not won't matter to YOU. But I'm sure the blood thristy soul sucking lawyers and news media would pick up on that immediately. That's one thing is that if you are wearing headphones, it's a potential issue for the lawyer should you end up in court (probably not if you were run over from behind though). That means that for whoever is injured, they could be out tens of thousands in compensation because of headphones.

GuitarWizard

As much fun as it would be to reply to all this, I'm done with you.....as it would just keep going back and forth, back and forth with no real resolution to anything.

GuitarWizard

Pretty much.....

But....the mere fact that a person was on a bike, the moron in the car would probably get off with just a light slap on the wrist and no liability to pay the familiy

I've thought about NYC riding and such....sorta looks like fun (from an adrenaline-rush perspective), but I think I'd definitely need a beefier set of wheels for that.

Ozrider

None. It is not safe to wear headphones when you ride. You need to hear the cars

BigFloppyLlama

Wonderful, that doesn't remotely answer the question the OP asked. Feel free to quantify that statement, oh wait guitar wizard already tried that.

scuzzo

wow, headphones on a road ride? ick, if im riding in a pack i need to have the ability to hear "CAR BACK"
or "HOLE" or "ON your Left" "DOG" or any other communications. if your riding with my club and you have head phones on you be asked not to wear them because it is not only dangerous to you but to evey one you riding with.. it just should not be done.. there is no debate about this that i can see.

SNEAK BIRD

Well, I want to thank the people who gave me their honest opinion. I tried using a thin headband on my ride today and it worked great. I live in a ski town and we already have over a foot of snow but my ears were warm and the wind noise was greatly reduced. I will continue to use this system until next spring. In the meantime, I will further research the recommended headphones you all submitted.

And to add my voice to the unending debate over listening to music or not while you ride, I choose to listen because it enhances my ride. I don't do it every time, but on most rides, I need it to combat the obnoxious dump trucks, buses and other vehicles rumbling past me. I don't feel less safe at all for listening to my iPod. As pointed out before by another poster, I am much more concerned about what threats are ahead of me than what is behind me. I have already made a safety concession by riding on the road so I do my best to give space and be visible. I am acutely aware of the dangers of riding and my own mortality, but I am willing to roll the dice because riding is so vital to my physical and mental health. And in the end, if listening to a podcast tips the scales in getting me out the door, I'm all for it. I have ridden in Bavaria, Provence and many other wonderful places in the world with nothing more than the sweet sounds of nature, my bike and my heartbeat to listen to. I live for those moments. But, when I am doing my daily 15 mile loop which takes me about an hour, I need a little help to liven things up.

GuitarWizard

Actually....dogs are a good point. The ones that bark their heads off and run, are *generally* harmless, especially once they're beyond their boundaries. It's the ones who are in a flat out sprint, intent on coming to get you....and subsequently, usually not barking...that you have to look out for. And, sometimes the only way to see 'em coming is to hear their footsteps behind you. At least then you'll have a little time to react.

But....I guess it doesn't really matter. You're not going to convince some people that it's generally a bad idea to ride with them, so these threads always pop up and it ends up in a pissing contest. It's sorta fun to see who you can aggrivate, but that's about as useful as these threads get.

Ok, onto more pressing matters. Let's talk about food....

Jarery

No debate? Your correct.
Theres also no mention of wearing headphones while on a group ride.

anonymouse99

patentcad

I will try to keep Guitar Wizard's warnings (which are equal parts clueless and dire) in mind while trying to survive the NEXT 100K miles on my road bicycle with headphones (the first 100,000 miles over 18 years were very safe and incident free).

God help me. At least I'll die listening to my favorite music : ).

The idiot level here gets so over the top at times I just throw up my hands and go back to watching Sponge Bob cartoons with my hero Plankton. Which often restores my sanity. But not always.

mrbubbles

yea, i don't buy JAP products

shure e2c rules

chephy

Please clarify which one you're calling crap, Slim or the Bradenburgs?

Jarery

Awesome achievment. Im not up to that mileage yet, i only do 15,000 km a year, but i do mine while on " a hybrid, have your seat about 3 inches too low and sit bolt upright, ride with platform pedals, and weave all over the place."

Thats gotta count for like double mileage

slvoid

LOL... ok.

In fact, between my gf and I, we have shure E2's, E3's, E4's, ex51, ex71, ex81's, sennheiser HD580's, akg 240's, and 5 pairs of ipod ear buds.

So yeah I can say from experience, the ex81's are the best balance of sound isolation, quality, and also letting in traffic noise.

(BTW, your computer, it's made in japan and a whole bunch of asian countries, sorry to tell you, captain america)