I'm breaking bad on my coach, who may be talking me out of the Pinarello
 

Had a long visit with "Coach Jerry" at his LBS yesterday before going to work.
We talked about a trainer plan for the winter, then some initial goals for 2007's season.

I'm now calling 2007 the season of speed for me. This year was about miles and doing my first century. Next season will be about going faster. 20's on that computer need to become the norm.

We all know I'd love to have that new 'hot rod' bike to help too, both by being a faster bike and by being a mental push for me as well....just having a bike like that does wonders for the mind.

But Jerry said going from the bike I have ridden for two seasons now to something like that Pinarello or a Luna is going to be a HUGE difference....one that I will not like. Both he and the mechanic on duty were echoing the same theme (store was dead as per usual this time of year so they welcomed the chance to shoot the bull with me).

The Klein Reve' X I have now has a slanted geometry...upright stem (as per my surgeon due to my hip)...and even that little shock absorber in back.

Going to a 'racey' new bike they said will mean a sore back, sore neck, sore hip...they made it sound almost tragic for cryin' out loud.

The plan is get me a loaner in my size...they have a line on a guy with a similar bike for me to ride...just so I get a feel for it come spring.

Anyone make this kind of jump involving these kinds of bikes?
Thoughts?

Appreciate any feedback....

--Hip

Hip - IMO to go faster you don't need the bike...but I am sure you knew that. Your Klein isn't holding you back at all and since it has been dialed in I bet it helps with your efficency. The Pinny isn't about going faster...the Pinny is about sex appeal...if you are telling yourself you need that bike to go faster you are kidding yourself.

Look at me, I just got the Eddy and it is a sweet bike but it isn't going to make me faster...in fact even though I had been looking at the newer Corsa Extra the chances were I wouldn't have gotten on and I probably would own a Specialized Langster by now...but I was given the Eddy frame and of COURSE I had to build it up right away which burned up my bike cash. Don't exactly know where I was going with that...but the point is you don't need the Pinny to go faster (but it sure is sexy. :D).

Have the LBS set a bike up for you that is similar geometry to the Pinirello or Luna and take it for a spin, then YOU make the decision.

Chopper....
This hits at the essence of my entire situation. Great points. Here is my breakdown about this:

75/25 breakdown.
I think that maybe, maybe 25 percent of this formula is the bike actually being stiff, lighter, more responsive and faster. 75 percent of this is sex appeal yes, but that's ALSO power of the mind. Who knows really how far the brain can take the legs if you FEEL a certain way....and a bike like that does make one feel quite good. Ask Dr. Pete....I believe he rides a certain brand I lust for! :)

http://hipcycler.zoto.com/img/45/800...f0267cccb-.jpg

Hip, it sounds like Jerry is looking out for your best interests, instead of fueling your bike lust. That is admirable, especially from someone who is in a very influencial position to get some cash from you.

Would the potential long term pain of a different setup be worth the short-term bragging rights that you have your dream hot-rod bike?


This thread has the potential to be all things anti-roadie forum. That is... it's not all about the newest/lightest/sexiest. It's all about what fits you properly. Though the newest/lightest/sexiest will always be there for lust, sometimes you gotta be faithful to what works best in the long run.

CyLowe....you're right on the money about Jerry there. And THAT's why I love and respect the heck out of the guy. In the end, I am going to do whatever he steers me to because that's how much I trust him.

He knows me well, and knows what fuels me. Part of that is the whole OCP factor, which of course includes the rig. But as you point out, in the bigger picture there are of course other factors to consider, especially in my case with what will be a seven-year-old replacement that has a shelf life of about 15 years for the average user.

I agree with this.

I also agree with this.

IMO, this is about Want, not Need, and there is nothing wrong with Want if you have the means. I think that's why you are having the conflict, you know you agree with 'Chopper, the equipment won't make you any faster. It truely is about the engine. However, if you feel faster, you are faster. You will be more motivated seeing the Pinarello around the house ready for speed. You will want to ride more, want to ride faster, etc.

My $0.02
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If you really want the Pinarello, by picking the right size, and stem, you probably can get an upright position similar to your current position. Kinda defeats the purpose a bit though.

Rather than going with a smaller frame that's in vogue now. If you get a slightly larger frame (i.e. if your between sizes , go up, not down) and running it with a shorter stem, and less seatpost extended you can set it up more upright for your hip.

Unfortunately, the only way the Pinarello would make you measurably faster would be due to a more aggressive position, which sounds like won't work for you.

so after the novelty factor wears off at the end of 2007 then what, get another bike?

Isn't that the way it's done? :)

Unfortunately, the only way the Pinarello would make you measurably faster would be due to a more aggressive position, which sounds like won't work for you.

--merlin....do you think that's really the case....that only position would make it a faster setup? I'm not so sure about that. What about the mechanics of the bike itself?

And if it IS mostly position, I guess if I can swallow the excitement of a sexy new bike...well...then I COULD save thousands of dollars and maybe just make my Klein a little more of an aggressive setup. I do feel there is room to lower the stem and increase my reach just a bit on that bike....and that IS something Jerry said we could do next season.

Anyway you could test ride a similar bike and setup? Suffering on an exquisite bike does not sound like fun to me.

Remember overcoming the air resistance is the #1 issue with going faster...and the faster you go the more of an issue it is. If you can get more aero and still put out similar power you WILL go faster. Getting there comfortably is the issue (especially as we age and if we have replacement joints). There will be a point at which you can get more aero but you loose enough power due to poor technique or pain. You can go as fast as you want on the Klein, nothing on that bike is holding you back.

You can go as fast as you want on the Klein, nothing on that bike is holding you back.

Chopper....I may print those words of wisdom out to paste above the bike so that I read that every time I go out to train. It may simply all come down to that.

Like Jerry said to me yesterday...."Look, you're not a pro. You're not getting paid to ride faster. You've accomplished a great deal on a bike already and doing just fine."

All true, but there's that little voice inside still saying, "faster, faster, faster...."

Hey Hip, what kind of wheels do you have? Maybe a wheel upgrade could satisfy your need to upgrade. It would cost a lot less, and could make as much difference in your speed as a new bike, depending on what wheels you have now.

Hmm now there is an idea...get some sexy wheels. Fulcrum Racing1...Campy Eurus...both sexy and fast. :D

^^Campy Vento G3's

Ask yourself this Hip...

If the new Pinarello gets setup with a similar fit - seemingly a must for the sake of your physical well being - how much faster will you be on it than the Klein on the day you take delivery?

Do you think owning this Pinnarello will raise your motivation and thus, your training, above and beyond your current levels enough to allow you to achieve your new goals? Enough to warrant the cost and the change?

Okay, screw the practical crap. Go get it because you want it. Because you really REALLY just want it. It's OKAY.

It's sexy as hell and you will look good riding it. Right there is enough of a reason.

Enjoy.

55/Rad

I'm guessing the Pinarello done up right might be a pound lighter than your Klein. That will make a marginal difference climbing. It may also make the bike feel faster, but I doubt you'd see much if any difference if you TT'd both bikes on the same flat to rolling course.

As for the mechanics, you've got Ultegra already, going to a Record equipped bike, (or D/A, or SRAM Force) will not do anything to change the amount of friction (which is a very small componet of the total resistence at speedyanyway). Higher end componets might arguably be nicer in shifting, aesthetics, bling, durability. But unfortunately they're not faster.

Now there are a lot of other reasons to buy a high end bike, other than it will make you go faster.

Like is short. Get the Pinarello and flip the stem up if you need to.

Duunno about you Hip, but my cf Trinity rides like a dream. Very smooth. My Ti bike is far stiffer than Trinity. I would venture to say that Pinny is more comfy to ride than your trainer leads you to believe. Although it will be differant from the shock absorber you have, but still better than most other frames.

+1000

There's a guy in my ride that uses a Mountain Bike, and when he's there I ALWAYS get dropped! This leads me to believe that aerodynamic positioning only takes you so far.

Ride a tank for a month and then go back to your Klein. You will be faster. Better than spending all that dough on Good & Plenty ;).

http://www.hersheys.com/products/det..._banner_gp.gif

Yor surgeon recomended an upright stem, anything else, I have a bionic hip too, but my doc maid no such recomendations.

A cycle-cross with an upright stem would be ok you think (eventually when I can afford it---a way way off) or am I stuck on my hybrid. I know it's just your opinion but it is appreciated.

It's true that the Pinarello is 100% designed to race. Short wheelbase, aggressive position, very stiff BB and stays. I mean, it's still comfortable to ride for hours at a time, but the position is absolutely racing-oriented. Even for me, when I put a stem on it that was too long the ride became uncomfortable after about an hour and painful after 2-3. Set it up correctly, though, and it's super fast and super comfy.

Now, if you bought the F4:13 and saved it for your hard/fast rides and kept the other to use as a century bike you'd be covered from both sides...

(added) You know, Hip, plenty of people in this world buy fancy shiny sports cars and save the minivan for the long trip, know what I'm sayin'?