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Shifting out of the saddle? Help me experience guys...

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Shifting out of the saddle? Help me experience guys...

Old 01-29-07, 01:28 AM
  #1  
Vitamin_J
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Shifting out of the saddle? Help me experience guys...

Ok, so I am on my typical ride and on the last five miles, I notice that I am either ghost shifting or something is broken. Every 20-30 revolutions, it feels like the front ring comes 'free' without resistance. This is scary on a moderate climb to say the least. I am always trying to beat my best time and not about to miss a fair winter's day and continue hammering on the way home and then WHAM!

It misses again and I go to the ground. First crash for me and it hurt. I nurse the bike home for a few more miles and everything is spinning as normal. On a quick test ride later that night, it happens a few more times within a hundred yards. As if all resistance breaks loose and then 'catches' again. Jolting...

Call my local wrench and he suggests that I busted the Ultegra chain during a shift while out of the saddle. While I am not a racer, I am a reasonably strong guy and have been a called a 'sprinter' by the local riders (6'3", 195lbs with 20 years of martial arts experience) so I have rather serious legs, albeit not cycling specific.

Is it possible I busted a portion of the chain? My max wattage is 570 but I don't think I came anywhere close to it on this ride.

The short question is, do you shift while out of the saddle, hammering? I was told this a no-no but I have a few videos of pros climbing through the gears doing way more than I ever could. Bad technique on my part?
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Old 01-29-07, 05:26 AM
  #2  
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In my experience (which isn't much), the only time I've ever broken a chain shifting and standing is when I accidentally shifted my front chainring. I'll shift the rear while standing and climbing or while sprinting and have no problem.

If your shifting without intending to when your laying down the power, chances are you need to readjust your derailleurs.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Vitamin_J
Ok, so I am on my typical ride and on the last five miles, I notice that I am either ghost shifting or something is broken. Every 20-30 revolutions, it feels like the front ring comes 'free' without resistance. This is scary on a moderate climb to say the least. I am always trying to beat my best time and not about to miss a fair winter's day and continue hammering on the way home and then WHAM!

It misses again and I go to the ground. First crash for me and it hurt. I nurse the bike home for a few more miles and everything is spinning as normal. On a quick test ride later that night, it happens a few more times within a hundred yards. As if all resistance breaks loose and then 'catches' again. Jolting...

Call my local wrench and he suggests that I busted the Ultegra chain during a shift while out of the saddle. While I am not a racer, I am a reasonably strong guy and have been a called a 'sprinter' by the local riders
(6'3", 195lbs with 20 years of martial arts experience) so I have rather serious legs, albeit not cycling specific.



Originally Posted by Vitamin_J


Is it possible I busted a portion of the chain? My max wattage is 570 but I don't think I came anywhere close to it on this ride.


The short question is, do you shift while out of the saddle, hammering? I was told this a no-no but I have a few videos of pros climbing through the gears doing way more than I ever could. Bad technique on my part?[/COLOR]
while many poo-poo shifting out of the saddle, plenty do it. the trick is not to do it while you're hammering/stomping/etc. sounds like bad technique and those Rex Kwon Do legs made for a bad mix.

Last edited by botto; 01-29-07 at 06:11 AM.
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Old 01-29-07, 05:53 AM
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Worn chain, chainring, and/or cassette?
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Old 01-29-07, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Treefox
Worn chain, chainring, and/or cassette?
probably chain/cassette
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Old 01-29-07, 06:06 AM
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Other possibilities:

1. cable guide under bottom bracket needs lubing. (common cause of ghost-shifting)

2. rear hub needs servicing. (pawls sporadically not engaging due to lack of lube, wear, or thick lube due to cold)

Bob
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Old 01-29-07, 06:47 AM
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Or the far more likely possibility that Shimano's 10-speed chains are garbage and will break if not assembled with microscopic precision. My Ultegra chain cost me a chain, rear derailleur, cassette, and derailleur hanger when it blew, no shifting necessary.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:49 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
Or the far more likely possibility that Shimano's 10-speed chains are garbage and will break if not assembled with microscopic precision. My Ultegra chain cost me a chain, rear derailleur, cassette, and derailleur hanger when it blew, no shifting necessary.
Yeah, but a lousy wrench installed your chain, right?
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Old 01-29-07, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by botto
Yeah, but a lousy wrench installed your chain, right?
LOL, very funny. It was the first chain on that bike, so I have no idea who installed it. Someone at Flyte, I guess...

I've never spoken to a mechanic who was surprised to hear about a 10-speed Shimano chain breaking.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:54 AM
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+1 Sounds like 'free hub' mechanism going 'free' at the wrong time, pawls not engaging.
Cleaning and relubing with the correct lube may fix the problem , but you may need a new freehub.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
LOL, very funny. It was the first chain on that bike, so I have no idea who installed it. Someone at Flyte, I guess...

I've never spoken to a mechanic who was surprised to hear about a 10-speed Shimano chain breaking.
i know there were problems in the beginning (iirc floyd landis lost a stage in paris nice back in 2004 because his chain broke in the break away sprint).

thought that they've resolved the issues.
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Old 01-29-07, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by botto
thought that they've resolved the issues.
The issue is still there AFAIK, but people are just much more vigilant about it. When you assemble the chain, the pin has to be installed perfectly or it'll be prone to failure.
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Old 01-29-07, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by botto
probably chain/cassette
+1

Also check for a chain link that doesn't bendas easily as the others. You can usually see this by pedaling backwards with your hands while you carefully watch the rear derailleur cage for a bob forward. When it bobs, that means the stiff link just went through the cage.

When shifting out of the saddle, I've always soft-pedaled for a stroke or two. I too am a sprinter (6'4", 185, 10x410lb freeweight squat). I've never hurt my bike shifting out of the saddle, but I never shift under full power. If your shifts clunk, then you need to soften it up a bit.
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Old 01-29-07, 07:25 AM
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My bikes can do this. As a larger rider, I've found that I'm torq-ing the frame a bit, which stretches the RD cable, which in turn, pushes it up a half-step, between cogs. It starts to shift by itself, so to speak. Then, the teeth re-engage and all is well. It is unnerving. Perhaps your frame isn't up to the power output you have. My two cents.
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Old 01-29-07, 07:30 AM
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I snapped my seemingly perfect 10spd ultegra chain on the first serious climb I did...I reckon it lasted about 8 miles or so.

Swapped it for a 10S0 Wipperman and no complaints so far...
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Old 01-29-07, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by mkadam68
My bikes can do this. As a larger rider, I've found that I'm torq-ing the frame a bit, which stretches the RD cable, which in turn, pushes it up a half-step, between cogs. It starts to shift by itself, so to speak. Then, the teeth re-engage and all is well. It is unnerving. Perhaps your frame isn't up to the power output you have. My two cents.
So you're saying that you're stretching your frame (presumably some metal or CF) far enough to make your bike shift? After all, the only way to stretch the cable with pedaling is to pull the cable stops apart...

There are many causes for ghost shifting, but I'm pretty sure it's not what you're describing.
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Old 01-29-07, 07:59 AM
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hey, man...just cuz YOU can't do it
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Old 01-29-07, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by DrPete
So you're saying that you're stretching your frame (presumably some metal or CF) far enough to make your bike shift? After all, the only way to stretch the cable with pedaling is to pull the cable stops apart...

There are many causes for ghost shifting, but I'm pretty sure it's not what you're describing.
I don't think that's the OP's problem, but I have had steel frames that I absolutely could make shift by a really hard effort out of the saddle. It's not that uncommon, particularly if the derailleur isn't adjusted well to start.
I think what you're actually doing is flexing the chainstay, so it's shortening the cable run, and also changing the chain line.

You kids with your fancy aluminum and CF bikes, just don't have the same frame of reference.
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Old 01-29-07, 08:07 AM
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First stop: new chain.
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Old 01-29-07, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh
You kids with your fancy aluminum and CF bikes, just don't have the same frame of reference.
My first road bike was a cheap steel Bianchi, so I did get to experience that.
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Old 01-29-07, 10:33 AM
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Didn't see this mentioned, but it's another possibility: Rear wheel flex - could cause a mis-shift when cranking/mashing uphill. OP's description doesn't make this sound like the cause - but it bears checking.
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Old 01-29-07, 10:54 AM
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If chain is in the works, get a SRAM.
Shift rear der. at dead spots on your crank, usually 12 and 6 o'clock.
IMO taking on a serious climb in big ring and downshifting to small mid climb is asking for trouble. ymmv
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Old 01-29-07, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Vitamin_J
Help me experience guys
Sorry champ, you're on your own there...
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Old 01-29-07, 11:16 AM
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I had the same problem on Sat., i took the bike to the shop and I was told it was the cable tension. I was in and out in less than 5 minutes, before you start buying stuff I would take it to your LBS and have 'em look at it.
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Old 01-29-07, 11:29 AM
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I highly doubt you busted the chain...you would see your chain hanging, and spinning the pedals wouldnt do anything. I would take a look at it. My guess is that you blew up the freehub, or your cassette/chain is worn out, causing skipping.

when you shift while standing, you have to let up for a half a second to let the chain move. once its slotted in gear, you can go again. The pros are so smooth at doing this that you dont even see it.

As for max wattage of 570...I highly doubt thats your max wattage...I can do almost that much for a minute.
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