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Etiquitte of the crash?

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Etiquitte of the crash?

Old 02-12-07, 05:45 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Jet Travis
This is why I never ride in pacelines or bunched up in packs. Too much risk. Too little reward.
Too much risk: You probably run a greater risk driving your car to the start of a group bike ride, than from cycling with the group itself.

Too little reward: It's hard to adequately articulate the enjoyment that comes from riding in a group. But those who do so understand. To each his own, I guess.



Bob
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Old 02-12-07, 06:10 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by San Rensho
Sounds like an honest mistake/ lapse of judgement and since he was apalogetic and took responsibility for his actions, I would leave it at that. I would, however, keep an eye on him in the future to make sure it was just a mistake and its not a case where he hasn't mastered rule number 1 of riding in a pack, never overlap wheels.
Overlapping wheels is risky. But it happens all the time. Typically the group slows for some reason and you don't want to brake, so you steer left or right out into the wind a few inches and bleed off speed until you're synched up with the pace, and then you gently move back into the sweet spot. During the time you're out into the wind, your momentum may carry you ahead of the rider in front of you so that your wheels overlap for a few seconds.

If at that time the rider in front of you does something squirrely and takes you down, I suppose that you are to blame because you should have known the risk from overlapping wheels. But at the same time, the cause of the crash would certainly be the squirrely rider who didn't hold his line.

So, I would add this caveat to the "never overlap wheels" rule you mentioned: "...if you don't know and trust the rider in front of you."

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Old 02-12-07, 06:30 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
Overlapping wheels is risky. But it happens all the time. Typically the group slows for some reason and you don't want to brake, so you steer left or right out into the wind a few inches and bleed off speed until you're synched up with the pace, and then you gently move back into the sweet spot. During the time you're out into the wind, your momentum may carry you ahead of the rider in front of you so that your wheels overlap for a few seconds.

If at that time the rider in front of you does something squirrely and takes you down, I suppose that you are to blame because you should have known the risk from overlapping wheels. But at the same time, the cause of the crash would certainly be the squirrely rider who didn't hold his line.

So, I would add this caveat to the "never overlap wheels" rule you mentioned: "...if you don't know and trust the rider in front of you."

Bob
That's why I prefer to very gently feather the rear brake, without stopping pedaling, when I need to reduce speed to stay behind the other guy's wheel. But our paceline seldom goes faster than 40 kph.
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Old 02-12-07, 06:32 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by Godwin
ummm... C'est la vie?

I hope I'm not being a grammar nazi, but if I am, that's life.
Not a Nazi, but maybe a Vichy conspirator.
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Old 02-12-07, 08:03 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Bobby Lex
Overlapping wheels is risky. But it happens all the time. Typically the group slows for some reason and you don't want to brake, so you steer left or right out into the wind a few inches and bleed off speed until you're synched up with the pace, and then you gently move back into the sweet spot. During the time you're out into the wind, your momentum may carry you ahead of the rider in front of you so that your wheels overlap for a few seconds.

If at that time the rider in front of you does something squirrely and takes you down, I suppose that you are to blame because you should have known the risk from overlapping wheels. But at the same time, the cause of the crash would certainly be the squirrely rider who didn't hold his line.

So, I would add this caveat to the "never overlap wheels" rule you mentioned: "...if you don't know and trust the rider in front of you."

Bob
You're right, overlapping is inevitable, but I always strive to not overlap wheels. In the situation you describe, steering around slower traffic, I always try to "show a wheel" to the guy in front of me so he knows I'm there and watch him like a hawk so I can react in case he moves over.
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Old 02-12-07, 08:25 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by Godwin
ummm... C'est la vie?

I hope I'm not being a grammar nazi, but if I am, that's life.
O.K. then while you're at it, it's etiquette, not etiquitte. "Etiquitters" never finish a group ride, vs. "Etiquetters" who always point out your riding faux pas.

Bob
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Old 02-12-07, 08:29 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Jet Travis
I've watched people like you "fall with every category." Decided that wasn't the life for me.
Like the pro tennis you picked up from a book?
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Old 02-12-07, 09:13 AM
  #58  
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Originally Posted by kensuf
So I was in a 4 bike pileup caused by a careless person on my local club ride yestderday. One guy broke a collar bone, I've definitely suffered some small tissue damage in my shoulder (will get it x-ray'd this morning), the third guy suffered some scrapes, and the guy who caused it was mostly OK with some blood/hand scrapes.

I'm out a 6 week old helmet (christmas gift, landed on my head, oh well, it did its job) maybe the forks (need to check the steerer out) and probably some PT/medical. The guy with the broken collar bone definitely's out some time, helmet, etc. And the third guy had a wheel destroyed.

Should we kick rider #1's butt?

Might help to explain what happened, not just the outcome.
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Old 02-12-07, 09:13 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by rufvelo
Like the pro tennis you picked up from a book?
Huh? If you wan't to ride pacelines great. I merely stated my opinion that I don't. I've seen a number of crashes and decided it wasn't my cup of tea. Why is that a problem?
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Old 02-12-07, 09:38 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by Jet Travis
Huh? If you wan't to ride pacelines great. I merely stated my opinion that I don't. I've seen a number of crashes and decided it wasn't my cup of tea. Why is that a problem?
Travis, I do respect your right to have an opinion, don't get me wrong. But some things, not all, one needs to do, to know, to judge.

I've flown solo, never in close formation, and therefore I can't make the determination from watching all those airshow crashes, that the reward is not worth the risk. I can't even realistically qualify it as ' not worth it for me' because I just don't know, never done it, probably never will. I just don't know.

Never bungee jumped. Don't plan to either. Again, I don't know if the 'rush' others describe is worth the risk, even for me - I just don't know.

I'd value your opinion a lot more if you had stated - after many years of riding in a bunch, racing etc, I've decided it is not worth the risk for me.

Then again, this too is just an opinion, I have the right to mine, no?
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Old 02-12-07, 09:49 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Steev
Can't comment on the US, but club insurance in Canada is only personal injury coverage. Never heard of any-one claiming, but I guess it happens.
The way I understood it was that the insurance is to protect you in case you get sued i.e running into a pedestrian or another cyclist.
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Old 02-12-07, 12:05 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by operator
The way I understood it was that the insurance is to protect you in case you get sued i.e running into a pedestrian or another cyclist.
You may well be right there. It would be prudent to find out, guess I'll start some enquiries.
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