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-   -   Etiquitte of the crash? (https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/268296-etiquitte-crash.html)

kensuf 02-11-07 07:01 AM

Etiquitte of the crash?
 
So I was in a 4 bike pileup caused by a careless person on my local club ride yestderday. One guy broke a collar bone, I've definitely suffered some small tissue damage in my shoulder (will get it x-ray'd this morning), the third guy suffered some scrapes, and the guy who caused it was mostly OK with some blood/hand scrapes.

I'm out a 6 week old helmet (christmas gift, landed on my head, oh well, it did its job) maybe the forks (need to check the steerer out) and probably some PT/medical. The guy with the broken collar bone definitely's out some time, helmet, etc. And the third guy had a wheel destroyed.

Should we kick rider #1's butt?

superjim 02-11-07 07:07 AM

well, how careless was he? If it was a reckless and uncalled for manouvere then he is responsible i guess, but if it was an accident through inexperience or whatever then you cant be too hard on the guy, id imagine he's feeling pretty cut up about it as it is, i know i would be if i caused a crach like that.

EventServices 02-11-07 07:33 AM

I seriously doubt that someone would knowingly cause a crash, or assume that a hotdog move would be accepted in a club ride setting with strangers. Some people are just unaware that they caused the crash.

Ask him if he knows what/who caused it. If he's oblivious, AND is he's going to ride with the group again, then you MUST point it out to him. Be as objective as possible. But otherwise, move on. Kicking his butt will only create a more dangerous situation.

One more comment: if you had seen him riding in a manner that had crash-potential, you could have pointed it out to him pre-crash in a very diplomatic and nurturing tone so as not to offend anyone.
Or were you going too fast?

Trevor98 02-11-07 07:34 AM

The luck of the responsible one should not be a factor- his actions should. However, you should not "kick rider #1's butt" because that would be too simple an answer and he most likely would not learn much from the experience while exposing you to criminal problems. Instead, ostracize him- refuse to ride with the guy (especially if the accident resulted from a reoccurring pattern of incompetence) and spread the word that the guy is dangerous- citing the accident.

As for the helmet, check out the manufacturer's exchange program. Many want damaged helmets back to study and offer a replacement program for much less $$ than retail prices.

ri_us 02-11-07 07:47 AM

No! Get him some skills and remind him that paying attention is king. If he has any sense of guilt he will be feeling your pain for years to come. And, bike racing is dangeous. It's one of the chances we take.

EGreen 02-11-07 07:55 AM

I'd say kick in his derailleur and beat the living crap outa him. That'll show him not to make another error in judgment!

asgelle 02-11-07 08:02 AM


Originally Posted by kensuf
Should we kick rider #1's butt?

That would make no sense. The fault was entirely your own. You chose which group to ride with. You chose where to put your bike in the pack. You chose how much space to leave between you and the bikes around you. And finally, you chose how well to develop your own skills. If you ride in a group you accept the inherent risks that come along with it. If someone is dangerous, work to help them improve or get them to leave the group, but that's the long term solution. During a ride everyone is responsible for themself. As they say in boxing, protect yourself at all times.

Retro Grouch 02-11-07 08:14 AM


Originally Posted by kensuf
Should we kick rider #1's butt?

You can try but it sounds to me like he might be in better fighting trim right now than the rest of you. This might be a good time to just cut your losses.

VT to CA 02-11-07 08:32 AM


Originally Posted by kensuf
So I was in a 4 bike pileup caused by a careless person on my local club ride yestderday. One guy broke a collar bone, I've definitely suffered some small tissue damage in my shoulder (will get it x-ray'd this morning), the third guy suffered some scrapes, and the guy who caused it was mostly OK with some blood/hand scrapes.

I'm out a 6 week old helmet (christmas gift, landed on my head, oh well, it did its job) maybe the forks (need to check the steerer out) and probably some PT/medical. The guy with the broken collar bone definitely's out some time, helmet, etc. And the third guy had a wheel destroyed.

Should we kick rider #1's butt?

Kidnap his puppy and a mail him a paw a day until he agrees to pay for broken gear and medical bills...

Seriously, in a situation like this, just be up front and honest with him. Tell him you know he's not a bad guy, but you're out a helmet, maybe a fork, and money for medical bills because of his screw-up. Anyone with any kind of moral fibre is going to suck it up and make right what they did.

If he doesn't, don't ride with him anymore, and suggest to others that they avoid him as well.

Jet Travis 02-11-07 08:39 AM

This is why I never ride in pacelines or bunched up in packs. Too much risk. Too little reward.

sleazy 02-11-07 08:43 AM


Originally Posted by asgelle
That would make no sense. The fault was entirely your own. You chose which group to ride with. You chose where to put your bike in the pack. You chose how much space to leave between you and the bikes around you. And finally, you chose how well to develop your own skills. If you ride in a group you accept the inherent risks that come along with it. If someone is dangerous, work to help them improve or get them to leave the group, but that's the long term solution. During a ride everyone is responsible for themself. As they say in boxing, protect yourself at all times.


as stated above- no group "ettiguette" can take the place of personal defense. if you're in a pack with a bunch of squirrels... then leave a bigger gap, form a group of people you do know and either drop the bozos or fall to the back and disappear/change your ride.

you've got to be proactive with your own safety.

barba 02-11-07 08:50 AM

More info needed. What do you mean by "careless"?

wai2fast 02-11-07 09:01 AM

Definitely more info is needed here. Was he popping wheelies at the front the paceline?

AGGRO 02-11-07 09:08 AM

I saw a group ride last week with over 100 in it. It's insane. I only ride with guys I REALLY know can handle a pack. Good luck on the mend.

banerjek 02-11-07 09:24 AM


Originally Posted by asgelle
That would make no sense. The fault was entirely your own. You chose which group to ride with. You chose where to put your bike in the pack. You chose how much space to leave between you and the bikes around you. And finally, you chose how well to develop your own skills. If you ride in a group you accept the inherent risks that come along with it. If someone is dangerous, work to help them improve or get them to leave the group, but that's the long term solution. During a ride everyone is responsible for themself.

+1. You are responsible for your own safety. Just as good driving is all about how you react when something doesn't happen the way it is supposed to (e.g. someone does something stupid), good riding requires you to be prepared.

Cyclists like to ride in pacelines, but if you choose to position yourself in a way that you cannot stop or dodge in time if someone suddenly does something dumb or suffers catastrophic equipment failure, crashes once in awhile will be inevitable. This is particularly true if you don't know the skills of the other riders.

At rec rides, I almost always see people I think are trying to ride beyond their skills. Pacelines are always dangerous, but they are especially so when the riders don't know each other well and/or lack experience.

-=(8)=- 02-11-07 09:27 AM

Glad you had your helmet on and it worked.
Accidents happen. Dont follow so closely next time.
Sorry. Nobodies fault but yours.

mollusk 02-11-07 09:39 AM

I hope everything checks out OK for you both medically and mechanically.

rufvelo 02-11-07 09:46 AM


Originally Posted by Jet Travis
This is why I never ride in pacelines or bunched up in packs. Too much risk. Too little reward.

How would you even know?

rufvelo 02-11-07 09:50 AM


Originally Posted by kensuf
So I was in a 4 bike pileup caused by a careless person on my local club ride yestderday. One guy broke a collar bone, I've definitely suffered some small tissue damage in my shoulder (will get it x-ray'd this morning), the third guy suffered some scrapes, and the guy who caused it was mostly OK with some blood/hand scrapes.

I'm out a 6 week old helmet (christmas gift, landed on my head, oh well, it did its job) maybe the forks (need to check the steerer out) and probably some PT/medical. The guy with the broken collar bone definitely's out some time, helmet, etc. And the third guy had a wheel destroyed.

Should we kick rider #1's butt?

Hopefully your group has some rules prior to setting out, and some leadership on the road to sort these things out BEFORE then happen.

If you already have all of this in place, then accept that crashes will happen sometimes - to all groups of all skill level. Recover well, make a personal decision if you want to accept this risk, and ride on with them, or not. BTW, I've fallen with EVERY category, even some 'pro's who needed coaching on how to hold onto a bottle.

rule 02-11-07 10:32 AM

Group rides in my neck of the woods are definitely at your own risk...and usually prove so as well.

Here's to a speedy recovery kensuf, and you might want to see if your helmet manufacturer has a crash replacement policy.

Smoothie104 02-11-07 11:01 AM

Did we ever find out what he did, or allegedly did?

barba 02-11-07 11:02 AM


Originally Posted by Smoothie104
Did we ever find out what he did, or allegedly did?

Nope.

TheKillerPenguin 02-11-07 11:06 AM

In any event, we can all agree that its everyones fault except for the guy that went down first.

slvoid 02-11-07 11:10 AM


Originally Posted by Smoothie104
Did we ever find out what he did, or allegedly did?

My best guess right now is, he farted and took down everyone behind him...

roadfix 02-11-07 11:25 AM


Originally Posted by kensuf
Should we kick rider #1's butt?

That sounds good, but that's not the right thing to do. Rider #1 should at least apologize to the pilees.


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