Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

"steel"

Old 08-05-01, 08:49 AM
  #1  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
s_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: gloucester, nc
Posts: 77

Bikes: 1981 schwinn cross road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"steel"

I am "almost" certain that I am leaning towards getting a real steel bike when I buy my first road bike (Carbon and Ti are too much $$). As some of you know I am getting back I shape with my old Schwinn Hybrid.

I definitely want a road frame geometry, better wheel set and gruppo... but all things considered I want to stay with the CrMo or similar steel frame for its all around road worthy-ness.

I am reading a lot of reviews and I know thay are biased... but the Bianchi Veloce with carbon fork, steel frame, and the Campagnolo Veloce group seems to be a good candidate to save up for. The cost is under $1500 and thats not to bad either... any thoughts or other products out there to look at?
s_boy is offline  
Old 08-07-01, 07:52 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
s_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: gloucester, nc
Posts: 77

Bikes: 1981 schwinn cross road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
anyone know anything about the Fuji Roubaix Pro... it is steel and comes with the Shimano 105 group for about the same price or maybe less?
s_boy is offline  
Old 08-07-01, 08:05 PM
  #3  
Junior Member
 
air5head's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have the Roubaix (al) but have been happy with it so far. It should be right about in the 1500 range. I was looking at that as well but my LBS couldn't get any more ( atleast in a 58 or 61) as they are at the end of their model year.

Good luck with your choice.
air5head is offline  
Old 08-07-01, 08:13 PM
  #4  
Senior Member
 
nebill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 683

Bikes: '76 Schwinn Paramout (Liberty) and an '89 Paramount (ol' Blue)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My Roubaix is an old one (1990 model) and it has a steel frame. It is so light, I thought it was aluminum, but I was wrong! Anyway, it has been a fantastic bike...I have put over 1300 miles on it since May 19th, and never had a problem! If I had the $$ for a new bike, you can bet I would consider a Roubaix Pro!

I have also been riding an old Schwinn with a Waterford steel frame, and it is really nice, too. I have never ridden on an aluminum bike, but I understand the steel is more resilient, and gives a better ride.

My two cents worth!
nebill is offline  
Old 08-07-01, 08:16 PM
  #5  
sandcruiser
 
thbirks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: now in Denver
Posts: 323

Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, Miyata three-ten

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't know about the Fuji, but whenever someone asks this question over at www.roadbikereview.com they get told about the Tommasini Sintesi that Colorado Cyclist sells built up with Ultegra parts.

https://www.coloradocyclist.com/commo...273&TextMode=0


I believe the price used to be less, maybe the price will drop in the fall. As i said people rave about this bike over on the Roadbike review site and if it rides half as well as it looks it ought to be sweet. l
__________________
"only on a BIKE"

Last edited by thbirks; 08-07-01 at 08:18 PM.
thbirks is offline  
Old 08-08-01, 12:42 PM
  #6  
Mr. Cellophane
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wow, th, that IS sweet! I went to take a look.
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline  
Old 08-09-01, 04:45 PM
  #7  
sandcruiser
 
thbirks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: now in Denver
Posts: 323

Bikes: Surly Cross-Check, Miyata three-ten

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rainman, It seems I have a thing for lugs and chrome, well who doesn't like chrome. Here's a better picture of a blue frame. https://www.tommasini.com/imgtelai/big/sintesi.jpg
__________________
"only on a BIKE"

Last edited by thbirks; 08-09-01 at 04:47 PM.
thbirks is offline  
Old 08-09-01, 05:30 PM
  #8  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
s_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: gloucester, nc
Posts: 77

Bikes: 1981 schwinn cross road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My.. my.. my, I think my heart went thumpety-thump when I saw that, tight, shiney little frame.

The whole bike seems to be a fair deal as well (from Colorado bike). Thanks guys for pointing that rascal out... it is definitely in the contenders circle for my choices. However 1699.00 is a bit more than what I wanted to spend.

I would still like all pro's and cons on "steel" frames that anyone can think of... I want to make the right choice when the time comes.

nebill... the more I ride my old Scwinn Criss Cross the more I am certain that that bike will stay in the family no matter what I buy next. It is a well built CrMo lugged frame. I can see converting her into a tourer one day! The guy at my LBS told me that those bikes sold real quick in '91 when they first hit the market (1st generation hybrids). The fact that you thought your Fuji was aluminum confirms Fuji's claim that the weight difference is minimal (iaw their www-site).

Last edited by s_boy; 08-09-01 at 05:38 PM.
s_boy is offline  
Old 08-10-01, 07:22 AM
  #9  
Mr. Cellophane
 
RainmanP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: New Orleans, LA
Posts: 3,037
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
TH,
I guess I am kind of a "lugnut", too. My new old (12-14 years old but hardly ridden) Bianchi Brava is steel lug construction. It is one of several things that makes me drool over this little sweety.

Nikos,
Here are some pros and cons:

Pros:
Supple ride, though with modern tubing, stiff in the right places on better brands.

Theoretically easier to repair.


Cons:
Rust!
MAY be heavier, though newer construction techniques can produce steel bikes as light as aluminum.
May be too supple for some.
__________________
If it ain't broke, mess with it anyway!
RainmanP is offline  
Old 08-11-01, 01:25 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
pat5319's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Spokane WA
Posts: 1,150

Bikes: Seven Axiom Ti, Trek 620, Masi cylocross (steel). Masi Souleville 8spd, Fat Chance Mtn. (steel), Schwinn Triple Bar cruiser, Mazi Speciale Fix/single, Schwinn Typhoon

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
take a look at the steel Le Mond (reynolds 853) and could be on sale now, (the bad part it's S*******equipped) and the Uni Vega models, they have excellent prices on "campy" steel bikes
steel and campy rock!!!

ride real with steel
pat
pat5319 is offline  
Old 08-11-01, 05:47 AM
  #11  
Just ride.
 
roadbuzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: C-ville, Va
Posts: 3,259
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I strongly recommend dealing with a shop rather than purchasing via internet. Especially if this will be your first road bike. You really need to spend a little time riding the bike you plan to buy to make sure it fits, both in height (seat tube length), and in length (top tube and stem).
roadbuzz is offline  
Old 08-23-01, 08:04 PM
  #12  
Banned.
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 616
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Why are you set on steel, just out of curiosity?

If it's the old saw about "ride quality", don't rule out other materials. The flex in tires, wheels, and steering column-head tube is what determines the rigid feel of the ride (or not). The difference in frame materials in vertical flex is so small given rider forces that it is undectable.

This is an emotional issue sometimes, but what I say is supported by careful measurements. The "soft" ride of steel and the "harsh" ride of aluminum are myths.


From
From Bob Bundy's FAQ article "Frame Stiffness" at
https://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/FAQ/106.html :




As many of you are aware, there have been occasional,
sometimes acrimonious, discussions about how some frames are so much
stiffer than others. Cannondale frames seem to take most of the abuse.
The litany of complaints about some bike frames is long and includes
excessive wheel hop, numb hands, unpleasant ride, broken spokes,
pitted headsets, etc. I was complaining to a friend of mine about how there
was so much ranting and raving but so little empirical data - to which
he replied, "Why don't you stop complaining and do the measurements
yourself?". To that, I emitted the fateful words, "Why not, after all,
how hard can it be?". Following some consultation with Jobst and a few
other friends, I ran the following tests:

The following data were collected by measuring the vertical deflection at
the seat (ST), bottom bracket (BB) and head tube (HT) as a result of
applying 80lb of vertical force. The relative contributions of the
tires, wheels, fork, and frame (the diamond portion) were measured using
a set of jigs and a dial indicator which was read to the nearest .001
inch. For some of the measures, I applied pressures from 20 to 270 lbs
to check for any significant nonlinearity. None was observed. The same
set of tires (Continentals) and wheels were used for all measurements.
Note that these were measures of in-plane stiffness, which should be
related to ride comfort, and not tortional stiffness which is something
else entirely.

Bikes:

TA - 1987 Trek Aluminum 1200, this model has a Vitus front fork, most
reviews describe this as being an exceptionally smooth riding bike

SS - 1988 Specialized Sirus, steel CrMo frame, described by one review as
being stiff, hard riding and responsive

DR - 1987 DeRosa, SP/SL tubing, classic Italian road bike

RM - 1988 Cannondale aluminum frame with a CrMo fork, some reviewers
could not tolerate the rough ride of this bike


TA SS DR RM
---------- ---------- ---------- ----------
ST BB HT ST BB HT ST BB HS ST BB HT
diamond 1 1 0 2 2 0 2 2 0 1 1 0
fork 3 11 45 3 9 36 4 13 55 3 10 40
wheels 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2
tires 68 52 66 68 52 66 68 52 66 68 52 66
total 74 66 113 75 65 104 76 69 123 74 65 108


What is going on here? I read the bike mags and this net enough to know
that people have strong impressions about the things that affect ride
comfort. For example, it is common to hear people talk about rim types
(aero vs. non-aero), spoke size, butting and spoke patterns and how they
affect ride. Yet the data presented here indicate, just a Jobst predicted,
that any variation in these factors will essentially be undetectable to
the rider. Similarly, one hears the same kind of talk about frames,
namely, that frame material X gives a better ride than frame material Y,
that
butted tubing gives a better ride that non-butted, etc. (I may have even
made such statements myself at some time.) Yet, again, the data suggest
that these differences are small and, perhaps, even undetectable. I offer
two explanations for this variation between the data and subjective reports
of ride quality.

Engineering:
These data are all static measurements and perhaps only applicable at the
end of the frequency spectrum. Factors such as frequency response, and
damping might be significant factors in rider comfort.

Psychology:
There is no doubt that these bikes all look very different, especially the
Cannondale. They even sound different while riding over rough
roads. These factors, along with the impressions of friends and reviews
in bike magazines may lead us to perceive differences where they, in fact,
do not exist.

Being a psychologist, I am naturally inclined toward the psychological
explanation. I just can't see how the diamond part of the frame contributes
in any significant way to the comfort of a bike. The damping of the frame
should be irrelevant since it doesn't flex enough that there is any
motion to actually dampen. That the frame would become flexible at
some important range of the frequency spectrum doesn't seem likely either.

On the other hand, there is plenty of evidence that people are often very
poor judges of their physical environment. They often see relationships
where they don't exist and mis-attribute other relationships. For example,
peoples' judgement of ride quality in automobiles is more related to the
sounds inside the automobile than the ride itself. The only way to get
a good correlation between accelerometers attached to the car seat and
the rider's estimates of ride quality is to blindfold and deafen the
rider (not permanently!). This is only one of many examples of mis-
attribution. The role of expectation is even more powerful. (Some even
claim that whole areas of medicine are built around it - but that is
another story entirely.) People hear that Cannondales are stiff and,
let's face it, they certainly *look* stiff. Add to that the fact that
Cannondales sound different while going over rough roads and perhaps
the rider has an auditory confirmation of what is already believed to
be true.

Unless anyone can come up with a better explanation, I will remain
convinced that differences in ride quality among frames are more a
matter of perception than of actual physical differences.
Merriwether is offline  
Old 08-23-01, 10:01 PM
  #13  
Member
 
caj808's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: New Brunswick, NJ USA
Posts: 41
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The two bikes that I'm currently looking at are the Jamis Quest which goes for around $1100, has steel frame and fork and 105 group, and the Lemond Buenos Aires which is about $1500 I believe which is also a steel frame with 105, but has a carbon fork and better wheels (I think) which accounts for the higher price.

I know someone else mentioned the LeMond, which is my savings goal right now, but you can't beat the price on the Quest, and I keep thinking that it may be a better value. Anyway, check it out at www.jamisbikes.com.
caj808 is offline  
Old 08-24-01, 08:01 AM
  #14  
human
 
velocipedio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: living in the moment
Posts: 3,562

Bikes: 2005 Litespeed Teramo, 2000 Marinoni Leggero, 2001 Kona Major Jake (with Campy Centaur), 1997 Specialized S-Works M2, 1992 Specialized Rockhopper

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
CAmpy and steel... now there's a combination. My current main ride -- a Marinoni Leggero with Daytona -- is a lugless Zona frame, but I have to admit the welds are so clean, smooth and regular that they're almost as beautiful as lugs.

The other thing, of course, is that steel is so quiet compared to aluminum. I love my aluminum MTB but, I gotta tell you, it's a comparatively noisy ride.
__________________
when walking, just walk. when sitting, just sit. when riding, just ride. above all, don't wobble.

The Irregular Cycling Club of Montreal
Cycling irregularly since 2002
velocipedio is offline  
Old 08-25-01, 06:31 AM
  #15  
SLJ 6/8/65-5/2/07
 
Walter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: SE Florida, USA aka the Treasure Coast
Posts: 5,399
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 6 Posts
I love steel frames. Beginning work on a Colnago frame I picked up on eBay for a comparatively cheap price. I'll be done with a mix Record/Chorus 8 speed for about $1300.

I agree with the poster who states that there may not be a huge ride differnce. I resurrected my college-days Cannonball, I mean dale. This is an 86 with the REALLY big downtube and I enjoyed the ride. Someone mentioned Univega. I have the lower-line model with Campy Mirage and it ain't bad at all. I thought the model with Daytona to be really slick looking and a great price. The challenge there is finding a dealer. You'll find your bike. 1 thing about steel is longevity. Lots of 1970s and older steel frames out there in great shape. In 2030 will we say the same about some other materials?
__________________
“Life is not one damned thing after another. Life is one damned thing over and over.”
Edna St. Vincent Millay
Walter is offline  
Old 08-25-01, 07:05 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
s_boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: gloucester, nc
Posts: 77

Bikes: 1981 schwinn cross road

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
While the rides may be close...

The look of lugs & smaller dia steel tubes is so tight and clean. It may just boil down to preference... and I like the older look better.

I am putting the Jamis in my group of $1500'ish candidates!

Bianchi Veloce
Fuji Roubaix Pro
Tommasini Sintesi
Jamis Quest


Will look at and spec out some of the Lemond models soon.
s_boy is offline  
Old 09-05-01, 12:16 PM
  #17  
Abol98
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
I too am looking for a new road machine, and have become a big fan of the Jamis brand. The "Comet" and "Eclipse" are in my final five, and I'm just trying to weigh aluminum vs. steel (no pun intended).

I've seen the Quest, and I think it would be right down your alley. It is a beautiful polished silver, and comes stock with Shimano 105 components and Mavic Comet wheels. It's billed as the do-everything road frame, from long centuries to criteriums. I think steel is definately the most versatile material out there. I wish the more-pricey Eclipse had the same polished finish!

At the risk of sounding as if I work for the company, definately check out the website... Jamis loads up their bikes with outstanding componentry for the money. Somehow, they put a $700-dollar Ksyrium wheelset on the steel Eclipse, which already has a time carbon fork and the Ultegra groupo, and sell it for 1900 dollars.

I'm not sure how the company makes its profit, so I'd buy from them quick before they go under!
 
Old 04-06-02, 01:38 AM
  #18  
Newbie
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: The Golden State
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
s_boy,

What will you be using this bike for most of the time: commuting, fitness, or racing?

If for racing, is it for crits or for road races?

If for road races, are you talking about 50 milers or 100 milers?

Also, will you be doing lots of climbing with this bike in races?

One more question: how much do you weigh? Less than 160 or more like 180 and up?

Depending on the kind of ride you do, you might want to consider different material. If you a lightweight person who does lots of hill climbs, you might want to consider a lightweight aluminum frame. High-end Al frames with tubing that's drawn correctly can dampen high-frequency road vibrations quite well. For even better dampening effect, you can get an Al frame with a carbon fiber seat stay.

If you are a heavier person, then steel is probably better for you. But don't choose the ultra-thin steel frame. You will over power it.

Since you live in North Carolina where humidity is an issue all year round, you might want to reconsider choosing a steel frame. Rust is problem. After a few years, your supple ride will become stiff like that on Al frames anyways.

If you are good about maintaining your bike (like touching up any scratches right away with nail polish or other paints), then you can make your steel frame last a bit longer where you live.

-VM
VeloMania is offline  
Old 04-06-02, 06:58 AM
  #19  
Don't Believe the Hype
 
RiPHRaPH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: chicagoland area
Posts: 2,668

Bikes: 1999 Steelman SR525, 2002 Lightspeed Ultimate, 1988 Trek 830, 2008 Scott Addict

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts

Steel is real baby!!
Steel is repairable.
Al cans are ok for drinking soda out of....but not for riding....
The strength in the bottom bracket is the most important thing for me. Just because a frame says it is steel doesn't mean that it is the same type or strength steel throughout the entire frame. Ask around. The jamis is a great bike for the money. i own a custom steelman bike and love it.
RiPHRaPH is offline  
Old 04-06-02, 11:20 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
RacerX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Left Coast
Posts: 1,717
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I don't know what people have against aluminum. It isn't harsh or creates more noise (whoever said their AL mtb is louder than the steel road bike may consider the knobby/wider tires that amplify noise. The metal causing noise is not true- only with carbon).

There is a trend back to steel but steel should be cheaper than any other material right now. Nothing wrong with steel but it is quite heavy.

Ti has the best "feel" but it is expensive for good Ti. AL frames are so well tuned now that I would only consider Ti as an alternative. Carbon sucks. It's like riding a piece of dead plastic. Steel is cool in that retro way...don't know what more to say about it.

LeMond steel is weird. They have them all tuned "old school", I guess good touring bikes but leaves more aggressive riders out. Why is that important? Because LeMond's name is on it! Since Twreck owns them, I guess they don't want direct competition with their (yawn) oclv frames.

If you like steel, go for it. Of course, fit and the angles a certain builder uses are most important. Steelman frames, for example, are wonders to ride.
RacerX is offline  
Old 04-08-02, 08:55 AM
  #21  
jah
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: central ohio
Posts: 22
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
While I still prefer my carbon for long road tides, I bought a steel cross frame to use in snow or on bad roads. I settled on a Gunnar, which can be had at a LBS in my area with Ultegra for around $1600-$1700. Constructed with 853 steel, the Gunnar gives a great ride at a reasonable price (Gunnar is a subidiary of Waterford). Check the web site at Gunnar.com for specs.

John
jah is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.