Think about it. How long has CF been mainstream? Less than 10 years or so. That isn't nearly long enough to even have a comment on its longevity, unless they self destruct every 6 months. And we all know they don't.

How long does a person even keep a bike? My guess would be 5 years or so. The kind of person who would buy CF is the kind of person(sweeping generalization) that wants the latest and greatest. They may be racers who are hard on their equipment. Are they really going to keep a bike for 10 or 20 years? I doubt it.

True. They are all geniuses, always have every correct answer, never make any mistakes, and always ship exactly what you order without fail, every time. And never mess up a bill.

Too bad the 75 threads about the problems people have had with these companies has escaped you.

Every business has good and bad people, and good and bad outlets.

Except yours of course. Whatever that might be.

I see that you are not in the irony business.

Try 13-15 years.

Sounds like a good reason to find another LBS that is better educated.

Ill tell you what, go down the Black Sheep Cycles in CLT and they'll set you up right.

I'd guess that alot of bike mechanics are probably more comfortable working on a titanium, alum, or steel bike for the simple fact that those materials can stand up to a bit of overzealous overtightening of a part or connection. You make that mistake on a CF frame, and you could cause cosmetic damage, if not structural damage. That's enough to make a mechanic gun-shy.

But that's not a reason to avoid CF. If you like the ride, buy it & choose your mechanic/lbs carefully (or DIY).

And yet most of us don't think twice about spending $40k+ on a car that 'wears out' every 4 years. Or several thousand dollars on an HD flat screen that will wear out in 5 years.

What car are you referring to? I don't know of a $40k car that will not last longer than 4 years on average. I have a Nissan truck from '86 with 200,000+ miles and still running strong. Minor repairs just like on a bike. Most cars will easily last 10 years with proper maintenance. Many will last longer.

Yeah, sounds pretty dumb to me. There is no way I would spend 40K on a car that won't last longer than 4 years. In fact, I would have a hard time rationalizing spending 40k on a car period and I make good money. I would venture a guess that most people spend closer to 20k on a car.

Of course, I have a horse that costs me the equivalent of a porsche payment.... I guess we all have our priorities.

I know plenty of people who buy $50-100K cars and trade it in every couple years. I think the point EDR was trying to make is that it's really not that absurd to buy a new bike every few years.

I purchased my first CF Trek in 1989, and it had been out for a year. Try 18+ years.

Hey Spence, who is the Litespeed dealer in Charlotte, Litespeed does not list any. Is is Ultimate in Pineville?

Where is Black Sheep Cycles, nevermind I found them, looks like they cater to the more esoteric end of cycling. What do you think of Bolt Brothers in Waxhaw?

http://www.kestrel-usa.com/about/index.php

Kestrel did it in '87.

We're up to 20+.

Can anyone do better?

But the thing is he used the word "last." Sure, plenty of people spend gobs of money on cars and like to be driving a new one every three years, but to spend big money on a car that won't LAST 4 years is kind of crazy. That would mean the trade in value would be near zero.

It is arguable that CF wasn't mainstream until a company like Trek got on board, but that is very close to twenty years at this point. Of course now that my man Scot Nicols @ Ibis is making CF bikes, it has come full circle from cutting edge to mainstream and back to cutting edge. Which you would only actually understand if you owned an Ibis (like I do), but none of you have one, so go Fred yourselves.

I said mainstream. Sure it has been around for much longer than that, but by mainstream, I mean readily available to the masses and easily obtained. Finding one manufacturer selling it for $10K isn't mainstream.

Read my post poindexter. TREK was selling these bikes to weenies like me in 1988. For regular prices, under $3K as I recall, not $10K. I'll help you with the arithmetic: that's NINETEEN YEARS. Even better, I still have the nylon/foam rubber bike travel bag I bought for $99 when I bought that 1989 Trek and I use it to air transport my bikes all over the place every year.

Is =/ kinda like !=?

I love it when people flat-out make stuff up.

Trek offered its first full OCLV carbon frame in 1992. So says their website. Those were the 5200 and 5500 bikes, which even Trek admits were not very good.

They did offer, in 1987, the 2300 with three carbon tubes lugged to aluminum. It's an intersting bike. I've seen two in for service in the last week. Had bright green decals on the carbon tubes.

Edit...yep, 1988 was the first seven tube carbon frame. That was the one that Trek said was so bad. I've seen photos of the warranty frames they got back.

Hm, 3k after 19 years of inflation = $6K today. That isn't mainstream.

If you buy a new carbon bike with a lifetime warranty, you're going to be OK at least as long as the company lasts.

The whole "fatigue limit" discussion is a bit off. If a bike were designed to have an infinite fatigue life (under what stresses? A 120-pound rail-thin guy who likes to meander around the MUP? A 250-pound bodybuilder who is slamming into potholes and curbs when he's not crit racing?), it would be too heavy. Clearly, some steel and ti bikes in normal operation see stresses over their fatigue limits - some fail in fatigue. Workmanship and the design of the details of the frame are key to good fatigue life.

If carbon fiber frames were designed like aircraft, they would have excellent fatigue life - better than metal frames.

But who really cares if Trek will give you new frame if you have problems?

Maybe the LBS comments had to do with mean time to a) failure or 2) just plain breaking - either requiring replacement. There may be data in the industry that shows that - for all accmulated reasons and factors - maybe carbon frames only "last" 5 years. Could have more to do with owners crashing them (or even dropping them in garage or dropping something on them) causing the frame to "fail". Where a Ti or steel frame may be repairable in more cases, the carbon frame under same circumstances needs to be replaced.

Also - do those elite pros really ride the same frame all year? I thought maybe they change frames during the year, and have access to a lot fo different frames, so that they are not really riding the same frame all year. That's what I thought, but I may be wrong - I ain't no elite pro peleton rider !! :)

Unfortunatly there is not Litespeed dealer in Charlotte Hawley's is closest I can think of in fayetteville or something like that. Yeah BSC is more highend track, 28 mountain, and custom builder stuff.

The bolt brothers are awesome, I've known Will Bolt for a while and hes super cool and is really into getting a bike that fits your specific needs and wont put you on a 4k race bike if its not your style. They're also a big moots dealer if you looking for Ti, I couldnt say anything bad about bolt brothers if I wanted to and I never heard anything of the like from anyone else.