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Who cares about doping?

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Who cares about doping?

Old 04-05-07, 09:09 AM
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ruck
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Who cares about doping?

Did a search didn't find anything, so if this has been done before my bad...

Inspiration from here https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/284752-floyd-begs-money-youtube.html

Basically what do you think about doping in the cycling? I posted in this forum and not racing one because this has the larger audience.

Also doping for this will mean any artificial chemical/biological boost (EPO, HGH, Straight blood doping..)
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Old 04-05-07, 09:10 AM
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damnit this was supposed to be a poll...
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Old 04-05-07, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by ruck
I'm your huckleberry
That was a great movie.
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Old 04-05-07, 09:23 AM
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Is this a thread about frame bumps?
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Old 04-05-07, 10:42 AM
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Don't care. Nearly 100% of pro atheletes in all sports use performance enhancing drugs. If they didn't sports records would never again be in jeopardy and fan base would decline. Sports leagues can't handle that possibility.
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Old 04-05-07, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by aikigreg
Don't care. Nearly 100% of pro atheletes in all sports use performance enhancing drugs. If they didn't sports records would never again be in jeopardy and fan base would decline. Sports leagues can't handle that possibility.

At what point would that end? Are all professional athletes to become disgusting super humans, their bodies ravaged by the drugs they're taking? Are we going to start bioengineering embryos to achieve certain traits so that it is no longer about the physical achievements of a human being but rather a contest between Pfizer and Merck?

Sounds grim to me.
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Old 04-05-07, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Xrisnothing
At what point would that end? Are all professional athletes to become disgusting super humans, their bodies ravaged by the drugs they're taking? Are we going to start bioengineering embryos to achieve certain traits so that it is no longer about the physical achievements of a human being but rather a contest between Pfizer and Merck?

Sounds grim to me.
Then we can feed them to the next round of super-athlete. Soylent Green on steroids.
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Old 04-05-07, 10:56 AM
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I am coming to the opinion that most fans will not care until somebody literally pukes blood and dies going up the Alp'Duez.

This is where I draw the line with performance enhancing substances (which caffeine and creatine are). If a typically qualified rider has to risk their life or their long-term health in order to compete, then it should be banned. This is my argument to all of those blowhards who argue about weight lifting, computers, creatine, caffeine etc... Yes - I agree, these are all advantages that cyclists currently enjoy that (with the exception of caffeine and amphetamines) were not available to cyclists 40 years ago. However, I am fine with technological progress as long as it does not:

(a) Turn the sport into a farce (see UCI weight and frame design rules for this issue) or;
(b) Endanger athlete’s lives or reduce their expected life expectancy.

No one should feel they have to risk death in order to compete.
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Old 04-05-07, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
No one should feel they have to risk death in order to compete.
wow didn't expect this to actually turn into a thread, what with botching it and all.

Maybe this is just a different approach but when you have people who compete in a sport as career(Pro Athletes), I don't see why risking death should matter, because its their career, its their choice, they don't have to put on the lycra everyday they could go to school, get a degree, work in cube, and post on the internet during work like many of the rest of us .

Now I don't race and am not even really aware of any of that culture so this might be a bit naive, do cyclists with cat ratings dope?
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Old 04-05-07, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Xrisnothing
At what point would that end? Are all professional athletes to become disgusting super humans, their bodies ravaged by the drugs they're taking? Are we going to start bioengineering embryos to achieve certain traits so that it is no longer about the physical achievements of a human being but rather a contest between Pfizer and Merck?

Sounds grim to me.
I got news for you, that's already being done, and not necessarily only with athletes either. Think about all the drug commercials you'll see in just an hour of watching TV. We're all on something.
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Old 04-05-07, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by aikigreg
If they didn't sports records would never again be in jeopardy and fan base would decline.
Um, ok.

If you say so.
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Old 04-05-07, 12:01 PM
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Was going to start this thread myself. Even considered the same name.

I raced as a cat. 1 in the US and in Germany for a couple of winter seasons. This in the 80s, on the track.

First: yes, drugs are prevalent, especially on the track, especially in Europe, and especially at the higher levels of the sport. I knew a couple of cat. 3s and 4s that doped, and it blew me away. That's just silly. If you can't win/progress as a low level amateur without drugs, you're in the wrong sport, at least if winning/progressing is your goal.

I knew a bunch of 1s that doped, and I'd say at least 50% of the low level pros. I can't speak as to what higher level pros and road guys are doing, as I wasn't either one. American racers were/are much cleaner than their European counterparts. American racers mostly considered it cheating, while Europeans mostly shrugged and considered it part of the sporting culture.

We also know that drugs have been prevalent in cycling for a very long time, but only became a serious issue relatively recently. Even the death of Tommy Simpson didn't create such severe repercussions.

So I do wonder if this obsession with drugs is good for the sport. I picked up one of the British racing rags recently and was dismayed to see that every article contained references to doping. If this had been the state of the sport when I got started, I would've gone in for golf or something.

Ideally, I think we should have left well enough alone. Conduct enough testing to keep everyone happy -- enough that the average spectator can believe the sport is clean, but not so much that you catch everyone at it and make a spectacle -- and don't develop new tests. I know this last is especially controversial, but think about it: at least some of the impetus for trying new drugs is in evading tests for drugs that already exist. Combined with the fact that performance drugs are getting more dangerous -- amphetamine, used sensibly, rarely caused anything more than the occasional arrythmia, while EPO has caused dozens of riders to wake up dead just in the last decade or so -- at least some of the blame for drug-related fatalities in the sport can be laid directly at the feet of stringent testing.

The horse has long left the stable, though, so the above is all pointless drivel. We let the drug warriors take over and they're going at it with righteous zeal -- regardless of whether it's actually beneficial for the sport. I know I liked the sport better 20 years ago, and the difference isn't the amount of doping going on, it's the amount of noise being made about it.

Last edited by Six jours; 04-05-07 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 04-05-07, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by VT Biker
I am coming to the opinion that most fans will not care until somebody literally pukes blood and dies going up the Alp'Duez.
I disagree. Fans won't care even then. If having it happen on Mount Ventoux didn't make fans care Alp'Duez won't either.
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Old 04-05-07, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Xrisnothing
At what point would that end? Are all professional athletes to become disgusting super humans, their bodies ravaged by the drugs they're taking? Are we going to start bioengineering embryos to achieve certain traits so that it is no longer about the physical achievements of a human being but rather a contest between Pfizer and Merck?

Sounds grim to me.
Let's put it this way: football defensive lineman back in the 1950s rarely topped 200 pounds. Now they're hanging out close to the 300 range. Some are beyond it. They're already at the ridiculous stage - look at the exploits of Barry Bonds. I know several of the people who have designed the steroid cycles of some pro baseball and football teams. Notice I said TEAMS, not players. This is not an individual effort. It often starts in high school now, and there is strong evidence pointing to middle school use now, even among females.

Problem is, performance enhancers make a good athlete great, and a great athlete nearly superhuman. The difference between those qualifications are MILLIONS of dollars per year. There is no way a pro to turn down that opportunity anymore.

You also can't stop it, since drugs can be engineered faster than the labs can test for the new compound. The process of creating the tests costs sometimes hundreds of thousand of dollars, and the lab just can't afford to test for everything.

So, IMO, the only answer is to let them become total freaks of nature - out in the open. Then the public can stop denying the truth and maybe it'll cost the pro leagues some serious money, and then the playing field will level and we can get back to games that are enjoyable because of teams, not games that revolve around "superstars."
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Old 04-05-07, 12:17 PM
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I'm doping right now.
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Old 04-05-07, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vpiuva
Then we can feed them to the next round of super-athlete. Soylent Green on steroids.
you know soylent green is peeeeple, don't you?

dunno, maybe all those dead dutch riders in the 90s would care about doping.
 
Old 04-05-07, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by aikigreg
Let's put it this way: football defensive lineman back in the 1950s rarely topped 200 pounds. Now they're hanging out close to the 300 range. Some are beyond it.
Stephen Colbert explained this, it was because of their big american balls.
 
Old 04-05-07, 03:07 PM
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I could care less. In fact I believe all pro sports should be allowed to dope. Makes for a fair and level playing field.
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Old 04-05-07, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Sirrobinofcoxly
I'm doping right now.
And all the cool kids are doing it.
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Old 04-05-07, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by msheron
I could care less. In fact I believe all pro sports should be allowed to dope. Makes for a fair and level playing field.

So if your son wanted to start racing, you would encourage a life-threatening regimen so he could be a 'winner'?
 
Old 04-05-07, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by DocRay
So if your son wanted to start racing, you would encourage a life-threatening regimen so he could be a 'winner'?
This is a good point. There are plenty of risks in sports. It's what it's all about really.

Why not allow risks from drug use to be on par with other risks of the sport? People in baseball, boxing and cycling have died as part of the sport. In football, people have been maimed and paralyzed. Why would it be wrong then for athletes to assume *some* risk from drug use?

It's probable that death and accidents from drug use would *decrease* if it were a regulated rather than unregulated practice. You wouldn't have cyclists shooting up in rest rooms and trying to ride with blood as thick as Velveeta.
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Old 04-05-07, 03:37 PM
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We will all be taking HGH in 20 years, ask any expert on it, it is a great up side and its not bad for you, which is a little known fact. With that said I don't advocate for performance enhancing drugs in sports.
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Old 04-05-07, 03:42 PM
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Doping rules.
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Old 04-05-07, 04:07 PM
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Below is a quote of someone posting while doping.. This is why I am against doping.

Originally Posted by samsation7
hey Guys,

I got into a little fight with a bunch of bikers (those fat snobs riding their Harleys with their fat girlfriends in the back) today. They came from behind and give me the "gun it" treatment as I was coming to a yellow light. They were going to pass the red light but because there were 4 of them the guy at the front obeyed traffic laws and stopped. I slowly pull up along their right hand side, somewhat pissed. When I stop my bike, my tires spitted out a punch of pebbles, hitting the nicely finished paints of the two harley guys at the front. It was unintentional so I didn't say anything, although I laugh a little on the inside. Then, my throat guy dry, so I spatted down the road. It just happened that some wind out of nowhere blew my spit on one biker's right arm. He should be wearing a shirt rather than just some dam leather vest. Anyway, the guy got pissed and started coming toward me cussing. He pushed me off my bike, in the middle of traffic with a bunch of people looking. I got up, pulled my bike to the sidewalk, and yell as loud as I could, "Kill me Mother#@#" or I won't let you off for this." The guy started to get scared and hopped on his bike when the light turned green. I grabbed his helmet, trying to pull him off the bike but he just rode away. Next time, I'm going to bring a frame bump for instances like this one.
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Old 04-05-07, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Doping rules.
Finally, someone in favor of Doping Rules!

My objection is that it is not healthy, as has been stated by others. Kids growing up playing sports is a major factor to my health objection. It used to be considered a healthy thing, to play as far along as your talent could take you - at this point, I'm glad my kids inherited my lousy sporting abilities and play music like I did as a kid/teenager if they would have to start doping when it gets serious.

Besides, it's a mockery of the other dozens of centuries of athletes. As far as I'm concerned, none of these guys are in competition with the Babe Ruths of yesteryear...in fact, no one that even eats healthy is!
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