Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Dissapointed in my Compact :(

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Dissapointed in my Compact :(

Old 04-16-07, 12:41 PM
  #26  
EdZ
Clinically Insane
 
EdZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 765
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Dont crosschain so much. Its the automotive equivelent of downshifting into first gear.
EdZ is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:42 PM
  #27  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
Thread Starter
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by bbattle
I understand none of this "cross-chaining hell" talk. I have a 50-34 with 12-25. Big ring for the flats, small ring for the hills. Don't use the 50-25 or the 34-12, same as with any other crankset. FSA Gossamer with Ultegra derailleurs and cassette. No rubbing, grinding, skipping, hopping, bopping, slopping, cropping, hippity-hoppity griping and complaining, whining and shining. YAIHCCT. jeesh.

HTML Code:
         53	    60.% 50
12	116.1		109.5
8.3 %
13	107.1		101.1
7.7 %
14	99.5		93.9
7.1 %
15	92.9		87.6
6.7 %
16	87.1		82.1
6.3 %
17	81.9		77.3
11.8 %
19	73.3		69.2
10.5 %
21	66.3		62.6
9.5 %
23	60.6		57.1
8.7 %
25	55.7		52.6
HTML Code:
         39   14.7 %     34
12	85.4		74.5
8.3 %
13	78.8		68.7
7.7 %
14	73.2		63.8
7.1 %
15	68.3		59.6
6.7 %
16	64.1		55.8
6.3 %
17	60.3		52.6
11.8 %
19	53.9		47.0
10.5 %
21	48.8		42.5
9.5 %
23	44.6		38.8
8.7 %
25	41.0		35.7

Botto says he find the compact to be "cross-chaining hell". He also states that he stayed mostly in the big ring on the compact; presumably to avoid "cross-chaining hell." Assuming 34-12 was the cross chained gear that Botto wanted, that is equivalent to a 39-14 or a 53-19. Using the 50T ring of the compact would have Botto more in the middle of the cassette than the standard crank, hardly "cross-chaining hell".

50-19 and 34-13 are basically the same gears and on the other end, the 50-23 is between the 34-15 and 16 gears. So, either you do a Botto and end up in "cross chaining hell" or you simply use that front derailleur every once in a while.
It's a cross-chaining hell because with a decent Shimano standard setup (or even compact I'm sure) you can run your big-big without much complaining from the drivetrain (aside from pre-mature wear). I acidentally find myself in it on my Ultegra 53X39 setup all the time without ever once hearing a peep from the rear end.

Not so with this Campy monstrosity.
Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:47 PM
  #28  
bbattle
.
 
bbattle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Rocket City, No'ala
Posts: 12,733

Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 5.2, 1985 Pinarello Trevisio, 1991 Colnago Master, '06 Bianchi San Jose, 1987 Moulton Fuso, 1990 Gardin Shred, '82 John Howard(Dave Tesch)

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I am familiar not with this "Campy". Perhaps the cycling gods have been angered in some way. Is Ryan posting pictures of himself again?
bbattle is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:51 PM
  #29  
drbianchi
Senior Member
 
drbianchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Seattle
Posts: 114

Bikes: Dean El Diente CTI and IRO Mark V Fixed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I have had no trouble running "Campy" CT with a 12-25. I run a mix of Chorus and Centaur. Granted the indexing with the front shifter is needed when cross chaining but meh, no big deal. My biggest gripe is the massive gap between 50 and 34. I have since swapped out the 34 with a 36 and have been very pleased.
drbianchi is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:54 PM
  #30  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
Thread Starter
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by bbattle
I am familiar not with this "Campy". Perhaps the cycling gods have been angered in some way. Is Ryan posting pictures of himself again?
- Must be. "Campy" must be that component group....you know...the one that is always competing with "Shimy" and "Schramm"...not to be confused with Campagnolo, Shimano or SRAM.
Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:55 PM
  #31  
Paniolo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: N Dallas, TX
Posts: 830
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I've got a 50/36 and like that better cause it gives about one extra gear overlap before having to change rings. Probably 85-90% on the 50. My Campy centaur will cross chain no problem. I do get a little chain rub on the 50/23, but the only time I ever go there is by accident. Are you using the micro trim on your fd? I often have to make a 1 click adjustment when going from one end of the cassette to the other, no big deal though.

That said for around here I would prefer a std 53/39 set up to use the little ring more. I need to go to a 11/21 cassette cause I do spin the 50/12 out occasionally.

Last edited by Paniolo; 04-16-07 at 01:02 PM.
Paniolo is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:55 PM
  #32  
rbart4506
You blink and it's gone.
 
rbart4506's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dundas, Ontario
Posts: 4,436

Bikes: Race bike, training bike, go fast bike and a trainer slave.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Ok, hope I don't get flamed since I've only done one ride on my compact (50x34) and have never used a traditional double. For the last 2 seasons I have been on a triple and I doubt I could handle a traditional double because of wonky knees. I don't have a lot of climbs, but I have too do at least one climb to get out of the valley and for that I need forgiving gearing....Hence the switch to a compact...

The first thing I have noticed is that I'm going to be shifting the FD a heck of a lot more then I was on the triple. In the triple I'd basically sit in the middle ring and run and down the rear cassette. Only time I'd use the small ring is at the start of the ride when I was leaving town. Only time I'd use the big ring, on most rides, was on the descent back into town. Right now the compact runs fine on my set-up, have minimal chain rub on the FD. The only rubbing in the 34 is when I get into the 12 or 13 and that isn't FD rub, it's the chain rubbing the shift pins on the 50. There isn't any skipping or excessive noise, really it's nice and smooth and very crisp...BTW it's an FSA crank with Ultegra everything else...

I know I'm a noob, but I also know it takes time to get use to new things. So you might need a few more rides before you feel comfortable with the set-up.
rbart4506 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:56 PM
  #33  
Grasschopper
He drop me
 
Grasschopper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Central PA
Posts: 11,647

Bikes: '03 Marin Mill Valley, '02 Eddy Merckx Corsa 0.1, '12 Giant Defy Advance, '13 Salsa Vaya

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Err I swear I posted in this thread...like when there were no other posts.

But anyway. Great looking bike but one thing I see is that it has pretty short chain stays...this will increase the chain angle when you are cross chaining and could be a factor in your issue. Have you run your Shimano setup on this bike with no issues? Also I would consider swapping out that 34t for a 36t inner. IMO the spacing is better and unless you are doing some serious climbing it will have plenty of options for you.
__________________
The views expressed by this poster do not reflect the views of BikeForums.net.
Grasschopper is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 12:57 PM
  #34  
botto 
.
 
botto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 40,369
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by Blue Jays
All-in-all it seems that a traditional 53 x 39 arrangement would benefit a larger cross-section of riders. While compacts work for many, I just haven't embraced that setup, since mashing works well for me. Running a 11-23 in the rear seems to provide enough low gearing for even very steep sections.
that's OK. most weak riders tend to do the same thing.
botto is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:00 PM
  #35  
El Diablo Rojo
Banned.
 
El Diablo Rojo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: ATX, Ex So Cal
Posts: 11,058

Bikes: Ridley Noah-Scott Addict-Orbea Ordu

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I run a Campy compact with 50/36 and 11/23 and I rarely cross chain. I am a high cadence type of rider but I've found this set up to be ideal. Honestly the gear ratios are damn near identical to a 53/39 12/25 so I don't understand why you are having these issues.
El Diablo Rojo is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:11 PM
  #36  
superdex
staring at the mountains
 
superdex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 4,280

Bikes: Fairdale Goodship, Spesh Crux

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 277 Post(s)
Liked 19 Times in 15 Posts
It will shift better once you get rid of all those headset spacers. duh
superdex is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:25 PM
  #37  
billallbritten
Senior Member
 
billallbritten's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 781

Bikes: Trek 7500 FX (2005)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by grahny
I'm running a 50/34 with an 11-23 cassette and it's fully capable of cross chaining no problem - no issues like you're speaking of (not that I intentionally cross chain)... Ultegra group w/ R700 crank. I love my compact. I run in my 50 just about all the time, but know that if I'm hurting I've got the 34 there to tow me along.
Ditto with with a 50/34 and 12-25 on a Bianchi Veloce, no problem re: the issues listed. I run up and down the cassette and use the 50, avoiding the 25 and, as Grahny posted, but do use the 34 as a bailout. Few hills around here now warrant the 34, generally I use it in, say, the 30-40 mph headwinds we had this weekend to keep my cadence up.
__________________
His: Trek 7500FX
Bianchi Veloce
Spouse: Trek 7.5FX
Daughter's: GT Slipstream (nice steel campus bike, step through frame)
billallbritten is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:31 PM
  #38  
Hocam
Ho-Jahm
 
Hocam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
What kind of RPMs do you guys typically ride?
Hocam is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:37 PM
  #39  
dekindy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,418
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I agree with botto on this one, definitely cross chaining hell with the compact. With my 53/39/30, assuming that I do not want to use the bottom 2 cogs and top 2 cogs to minimize "cross chaining" (these are the combos that I can hear the binding) and to get to the next size gear inch combination, I shift 3 cogs going from 53 to 39 and 2 cogs going from 39 to 30. My buddy that has a 50/39/30 skips two cogs between both.

On the compact, he has to skip 5 cogs when shifting between the 50 and 34 to get the next gear. I consider 5 cogs cross chaining hell. I guess it depends on your definition.

50 47.1 % 34
12 109.5 74.5
8.3 %
13 101.1 68.7
7.7 %
14 93.9 63.8
7.1 %
15 87.6 59.6
6.7 %
16 82.1 55.8
6.3 %
17 77.3 52.6
5.9 %
18 73.0 49.6
5.6 %
19 69.2 47.0
10.5 %
21 62.6 42.5
9.5 %
23 57.1 38.8

Last edited by dekindy; 04-16-07 at 01:43 PM.
dekindy is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:44 PM
  #40  
Phantoj
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
with a decent Shimano standard setup (or even compact I'm sure) you can run your big-big without much complaining from the drivetrain (aside from pre-mature wear). I acidentally find myself in it on my Ultegra 53X39 setup all the time without ever once hearing a peep from the rear end.
In my opinion, big-big cross-chaining isn't nearly the drivetrain-killer that it's made out to be. Big-big on a double is pretty much the same as big cog, middle ring on a triple, right?

Little-little, now that I'm not a fan of... higher chain force, fewer teeth, bad news.



Sorry for the off-topic, not much experience with compacts.
Phantoj is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 01:53 PM
  #41  
blue_nose
Scottish Canuck in the US
 
blue_nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: Trek 2100, Cervélo Carbon Soloist

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is how I spent my Saturday.



By climb # 7 my legs were screaming and would have gladly traded my 52/39 for a compact crank. Granted I was running a 12-25 cassette, but I don’t think switching to a 12-27 would have made that much of a difference.

Personally, I would like to have another climbing specific bike with a compact or a triple for days when I climb more than 10'k +.
blue_nose is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:01 PM
  #42  
ifox
100 kW :)
 
ifox's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 401

Bikes: '08 Specialized Tarmac SL2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by blue_nose
This is how I spent my Saturday.



By climb # 7 my legs were screaming and would have gladly traded my 52/39 for a compact crank. Granted I was running a 12-25 cassette, but I don’t think switching to a 12-27 would have made that much of a difference.

Personally, I would like to have another climbing specific bike with a compact or a triple for days when I climb more than 10'k +.

nice.
what software is this?
ifox is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:11 PM
  #43  
StupidlyBrave 
Chepooka
 
StupidlyBrave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: South Central PA
Posts: 1,167

Bikes: 1990 Trek 1400 7spd; 2001 Litespeed Arenberg 10 speed

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
I believe 'veloce' is Italian for dog *****.

Will you take $100 for the group?
StupidlyBrave is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:14 PM
  #44  
biker7
Senior Member
 
biker7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Some pretty good comments made but will provide another perspective OP. One way to look at finding yourself X-chaining alot is the ratio of the front chainrings themselves. If you think about it, you find yourself X-chaining more the less overlap there is between front chainrings.
Here are some ratios:
53/39= 1.36
50/34= 1.47
50/36= 1.39

What does the above mean? A 50/34 compact gives you larger ratio differentiation given any cassette. This is for a purpose. To get up tall hills and get down same tall hills without spinning out...why a ratio diff of 1.47 is desirable.
For most riders that aren't pro, you can get tall enough gearing by choosing the right cassette with say a 23-11...but....you will spend more time changing chainrings because the front rings are farther apart in ratio. So what you are feeling is true and btw the same thing I experience and am ambivalent about as well. So what are your options? Well...you can choose a different cassette that is more in your range of riding such that you will spend less time between rings...or....opt for a 50/36. Why? Because the ratio difference between a 53/39 is just about the same as a 50/36 per the above. The only reason today a rider needs a 53/39 is if he can't find a short enough rear cassette. That isn't the case with most of us.
I hope this helps,
George
biker7 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:25 PM
  #45  
ggg300
Burnin' and Lootin'
 
ggg300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCA
Posts: 2,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rufvelo
Definitely the smarter option.

its short hand http://www.slowtwitch.com/mainheadin...r/gearing.html
ggg300 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:26 PM
  #46  
biker7
Senior Member
 
biker7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by blue_nose
This is how I spent my Saturday.



By climb # 7 my legs were screaming and would have gladly traded my 52/39 for a compact crank. Granted I was running a 12-25 cassette, but I don’t think switching to a 12-27 would have made that much of a difference.

Personally, I would like to have another climbing specific bike with a compact or a triple for days when I climb more than 10'k +.
Absolutely where a triple or 50/34 shine because of the chainring ratio difference they offer. Bigger the chainring ratio difference = Bigger the elevation change....what both triple and 50/34 compact offer.
George
biker7 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:27 PM
  #47  
biker7
Senior Member
 
biker7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,850
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by rbart4506
Ok, hope I don't get flamed since I've only done one ride on my compact (50x34) and have never used a traditional double. For the last 2 seasons I have been on a triple and I doubt I could handle a traditional double because of wonky knees. I don't have a lot of climbs, but I have too do at least one climb to get out of the valley and for that I need forgiving gearing....Hence the switch to a compact...

The first thing I have noticed is that I'm going to be shifting the FD a heck of a lot more then I was on the triple. In the triple I'd basically sit in the middle ring and run and down the rear cassette. Only time I'd use the small ring is at the start of the ride when I was leaving town. Only time I'd use the big ring, on most rides, was on the descent back into town. Right now the compact runs fine on my set-up, have minimal chain rub on the FD. The only rubbing in the 34 is when I get into the 12 or 13 and that isn't FD rub, it's the chain rubbing the shift pins on the 50. There isn't any skipping or excessive noise, really it's nice and smooth and very crisp...BTW it's an FSA crank with Ultegra everything else...

I know I'm a noob, but I also know it takes time to get use to new things. So you might need a few more rides before you feel comfortable with the set-up.
Will say this...you are a very insightful noob. Couldn't agree more with everything you wrote. I too like a triple for overall riding for the reasons you accurately state.
George
biker7 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:33 PM
  #48  
R900
Double Secret Probation
 
R900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Eastern Indiana
Posts: 2,578

Bikes: Madone 6 series SSL, Cannondale CX9, Trek TTX, Trek 970, Trek T2000

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I don't have much input, and I'm sure you are a stronger rider then I am, but after riding both Campy and Shimano, and triples, doubles, and a compact, I really like my compact (50/36). Not sure why you had the chain shifting issues at first - might want to check chain lenght. I try not to cross chain, maybe a different cassette would work better for you. Good Luck.

P.S. Bike looks good, what size?
__________________
Time to Ride...
R900 is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 02:41 PM
  #49  
blue_nose
Scottish Canuck in the US
 
blue_nose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,179

Bikes: Trek 2100, Cervélo Carbon Soloist

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ifox
nice.
what software is this?
The graph is from MotionBased - I numbered the major climbs myself.
blue_nose is offline  
Old 04-16-07, 03:33 PM
  #50  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
Thread Starter
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 20,593

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 599 Post(s)
Liked 23 Times in 18 Posts
Originally Posted by R900
I don't have much input, and I'm sure you are a stronger rider then I am, but after riding both Campy and Shimano, and triples, doubles, and a compact, I really like my compact (50/36). Not sure why you had the chain shifting issues at first - might want to check chain lenght. I try not to cross chain, maybe a different cassette would work better for you. Good Luck.

P.S. Bike looks good, what size?
Thanks. 52. Bought off the Flyte E-Bay clearance for $99 with headset, stem, bars, and seatpost collar. I built the wheels and found great sources for everything else. Didn't add it all up, but it is probably under $1k....just barely.
Psimet2001 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.