Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

"handmade in usa"

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

"handmade in usa"

Old 04-20-07, 01:43 AM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 2
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"handmade in usa"

Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa". I recently purchased a 2007 caad5 frame which bears the usual "handmade in usa" printed on the right rear seatstay. However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company, and while they are world-class in production capabilities im sure, it still isnt an american company. Im assuming therefore the caad frame i got is made in taiwan. So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?

anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
emartino is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 01:47 AM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 643

Bikes: 2005 Scattante R660 Triple, 2006 Specialized Rockhopper Comp Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I believe that the frame is made in the US, while the fork and most all other parts are made elsewhere.

I don't think that it's a misnomer, because face it, if you have anything Shimano on your bike, it's not going to be 100% US made. They're advertising an American-made frame only with the "Handmade in the USA" statement.
Mach42 is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 02:58 AM
  #3  
cs1
Senior Member
 
cs1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Clev Oh
Posts: 7,091

Bikes: Specialized, Schwinn

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 225 Post(s)
Liked 24 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by emartino
Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa".
Made by hand labor, not machine, in the United States of America.

Originally Posted by emartino
So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?
Because the frame is made by hand, not machine, in Cannondale's plant in the United States. Only the fork was made in Taiwan.
cs1 is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 03:02 AM
  #4  
the goal
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Brixton, London
Posts: 457

Bikes: Bob Jackson track

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Did you stop to think that maybe Kinesis makes the little black plastic things and cannondale buys them for packing frames? I'm sure Cannondale didn't manufacture the cardboard box, packing tape or bubblewrap either.
Momentum is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 03:35 AM
  #5  
Senior Member
 
roadwarrior's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Someplace trying to figure it out
Posts: 10,664

Bikes: Cannondale EVO, CAAD9, Giant cross bike.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 67 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Originally Posted by emartino
Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa". I recently purchased a 2007 caad5 frame which bears the usual "handmade in usa" printed on the right rear seatstay. However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company, and while they are world-class in production capabilities im sure, it still isnt an american company. Im assuming therefore the caad frame i got is made in taiwan. So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?

anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
Incorrect.

The frame was made in Bedford, Pennsylvania. By hand.

Don't assume.

BTW...it appears you are new to the sport. A frame and a fork are two separate and distinct bike parts. The frame is comprised of the head tube, seat tube, down tube, top tube, seat stays, and chain stays.
Hope that helps.

Last, the bike was assembled in Bedford, as well.
roadwarrior is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 03:57 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
austinspinner's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 427
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Yes, cannondale sources carbonfiber parts from taiwain. This includes forks and tubes for their aluminum carbon hybrid models. The frames that include carbon fiber tubes are crafted in the usa from overseas and domestic parts
__________________
"I love fools’ experiments. I am always making them." - Darwin
austinspinner is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 04:17 AM
  #7  
Je pose, donc je suis.
 
gcl8a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 1,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
My 90's Lemond reads "Handmade by Greg Lemond".

I think he welded it in his basement.
gcl8a is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 04:19 AM
  #8  
Experienced Lurker
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The Federal Trade Commission had this to say:

"The Commission's action reinstates the longstanding principle that an unqualified U.S. origin claim is a claim that the product is made entirely in the United States except for a de minimis or negligible amount of foreign content."

Their website gives the following example to clear up the distinction between assembly in the USA with USA suppliers using foreign parts:

"A company manufactures food processors in its U.S. plant, making most of the parts, including the housing and blade, from U.S. materials. The motor, which constitutes 50 percent of the food processor’s total manufacturing costs, is bought from a U.S. supplier. The food processor manufacturer knows that the motor is assembled in a U.S. factory. Even though most of the parts of the food processor are of U.S. origin, the final assembly is in the U.S., and the motor is assembled in the U.S., the food processor is not considered "all or virtually all" American-made if the motor itself is made of imported parts that constitute a significant percentage of the appliance’s total manufacturing cost. Before claiming the product is Made in USA, this manufacturer should look to its motor supplier for more specific information about the motor’s origin."

https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/madeusa.shtm
MiRider is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 05:17 AM
  #9  
King of the Dolomites
 
Simoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: At the front of the pack
Posts: 251

Bikes: Treks and Cannondales, Willier, Giant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by gcl8a
My 90's Lemond reads "Handmade by Greg Lemond".

I think he welded it in his basement.
No, Greg used to do all his welding in the garage due to the smoke and fumes.

Honest.

Cannondale's forks are made by Time, last "time" I checked.

Last edited by Simoni; 04-20-07 at 05:42 AM.
Simoni is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 05:34 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
late's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Southern Maine
Posts: 8,932
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12161 Post(s)
Liked 1,475 Times in 1,088 Posts
My frame and fork was made in Waterford Wisconsin. And you could use an American made fork, even carbon, if you wished. My saddle was also made in the good ol USA.

But I didn't buy them because they were American, I bought them because they were terrific and just right for me.

Don't worry too much about it. If you want, you can replace a few pieces with American made.
You could start another thread asking about what parts are made here.
late is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 05:45 AM
  #11  
Je pose, donc je suis.
 
gcl8a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Odense, Denmark
Posts: 1,463
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by emartino
...well thought out marketing ploy?
That depends. How much more did you pay because it was made in the USA?
gcl8a is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 06:09 AM
  #12  
Old & Getting Older Racer
 
Cleave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: SoCal
Posts: 5,343

Bikes: Bicycle Transportation: 2022 Hyundai Kona Electric, 2019 Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid

Mentioned: 62 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by emartino
However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company,
Hi,

So you're saying that because the 25 cent piece of plastic used to protect the frame and fork dropouts is made by Taiwan-based company that the frame must also be made there?

Those plastic "rods" are probably made very nicely in Taiwan. The frame (I don't know about the fork) is made in the US.
__________________
Thanks.
Cleave
"Real men still wear pink."
Visit my blog at https://cleavesblant.wordpress.com/
Lightning Velo Cycling Club: https://www.lightningvelo.org/
Learn about our Green Dream Home at https://www.lawville.org/
Cleave is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:06 AM
  #13  
On the Move
 
teterider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,219

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by Simoni
No, Greg used to do all his welding in the garage due to the smoke and fumes.

Honest.

Cannondale's forks are made by Time, last "time" I checked.

They were made by Time, but can someone confirm if Time or who supplies their forks now. Its also too bad Cannondale had to cut costs and stop painting forks to match the frame. They used to have some really great paint jobs - now they don't.

Here are two of the great multi-shade fades they used to do, and there were many more:

teterider is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:14 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,085
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
"hand made in USA" coulde mean a lot of things.

frame is built overseas and painted in USA

everything is made overseas and bike is assembled in USA

Tubes are made overseas and frame is welded together in USA

could be any of the above, I dont know anyone in the industry with strong cannondale ties so i cant say for sure.
recneps is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:22 AM
  #15  
Up on the Down Side
 
CyLowe97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago(ish)
Posts: 6,334
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Do folks who buy Toyota Camry's get all hung up about which parts were sourced from Japan or otherwise, even though the car is "Assembled In USA" ??

Corporations who want to sell products globally have to think globally. If that means sourcing CF parts from Taiwan (acknowledged by most at the authority on mass production CF), and mating them to a frame that is produced in the US, then that is what they do. Then they add on some Shimano components from Japan and some Michelin tires from France.

Cannondale has been making quality aluminum frames for a few decades now and that experience allows them to build their aluminum frames in the US. Going to the Synapse line, they probably recognized that they would get a better product by designing it themselves and then outsourcing the production of the CF frames to Taiwan. Good for them if they think this will result in a higher quality product for the consumer.

It's hard to get jingoistic about cycling gear when it's almost impossible for most to build a whole bike with USA designed, sourced, and produced parts.

YMMV
CyLowe97 is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:26 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Athens, Ohio
Posts: 5,104

Bikes: Custom Custom Custom

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I don't think Time makes the forks now. They've stopped putting "Made by Time" on the forks a few years back when they started using the "Slice Premium" forks.

China and Taiwan are the CF kings. As a rough estimate, I'd say 60-70% of all CF bikes and parts are from Taiwan.
nitropowered is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 08:07 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
jschatz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 205

Bikes: Trek 2300

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
The tubes are from Kinesis in Taiwan (good stuff, by the way). The frame was designed and is welded in the USA, thus it's "made" here. No big deal.
jschatz is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:26 PM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
DieselDan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
Posts: 8,521

Bikes: Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
The frame has "Handmade in the USA" and that is accurate, the frame was manufactured in the USA. The other parts will have the country of origin printed or stamped on them. Look at the backside of the derailers, the decal on the rim, the stampings on the hubs, etc., you will find the country of origin on all of them.
DieselDan is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 07:43 PM
  #19  
On the Move
 
teterider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 1,219

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by jschatz
The tubes are from Kinesis in Taiwan (good stuff, by the way). The frame was designed and is welded in the USA, thus it's "made" here. No big deal.

I'd believe if the "Premium" forks are now from Kinesis, but I'm almost certain the aluminum is sourced directly from Alcoa. (and thanks Alcoa for that nice stock profit last 2 quarters).
teterider is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 08:03 PM
  #20  
Gorntastic!
 
v1k1ng1001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: United States of Mexico
Posts: 3,424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.
__________________
v1k1ng1001 is offline  
Old 04-20-07, 08:13 PM
  #21  
Baby it's cold outside...
 
ViperZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SK, Canada
Posts: 7,310

Bikes: Trek 5000, Rocky Mountain Wedge, GT Karakoram K2, Litespeed Tuscany

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by v1k1ng1001
I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.

Nodoubt.... Au natural can display quality
__________________
-Trek 5000* -Project Litespeed* -The Italian Job* -Rocky Wedge* -The Canadian Connection*
ViperZ is offline  
Old 04-21-07, 05:04 AM
  #22  
King of the Dolomites
 
Simoni's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: At the front of the pack
Posts: 251

Bikes: Treks and Cannondales, Willier, Giant

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by v1k1ng1001
I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.

I am just laughing at this.

I've been to the factory and watched them build frames.

As Botto would say, "incorrect"...

Why, oh why do people feel the need to particpate in a thread where they have zero knowledge?
Simoni is offline  
Old 04-21-07, 08:27 AM
  #23  
Senior Member
 
Nessism's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Torrance, CA
Posts: 3,059

Bikes: Homebuilt steel

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2156 Post(s)
Liked 416 Times in 330 Posts
Originally Posted by Simoni
I am just laughing at this.

I've been to the factory and watched them build frames.

As Botto would say, "incorrect"...

Why, oh why do people feel the need to particpate in a thread where they have zero knowledge?
...so enlighten the naves...
Nessism is offline  
Old 04-21-07, 08:33 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
kergin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kitchener, ON
Posts: 2,032

Bikes: 1994 Proctor Townsend Reynolds 753, TT S3 True North, Kona Major Jake, Kona Honky Tonk, Marinoni Puima, Cannondale BBU

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by teterider
I'd believe if the "Premium" forks are now from Kinesis, but I'm almost certain the aluminum is sourced directly from Alcoa. (and thanks Alcoa for that nice stock profit last 2 quarters).
True. I contacted Cannondale to ask, specifically, where they source their aluminum from. Their answer: all the Alu is sourced from the US.
kergin is offline  
Old 04-21-07, 09:24 AM
  #25  
Hypoxic Member
 
head_wind's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 545
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
I don't know if this is still true but in the '60's shirt manufacturers
could say made in U.S.A. if the last three buttons were sewn on
in the U.S.A.
head_wind is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.