"handmade in usa"
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"handmade in usa"
Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa". I recently purchased a 2007 caad5 frame which bears the usual "handmade in usa" printed on the right rear seatstay. However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company, and while they are world-class in production capabilities im sure, it still isnt an american company. Im assuming therefore the caad frame i got is made in taiwan. So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?
anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
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I believe that the frame is made in the US, while the fork and most all other parts are made elsewhere.
I don't think that it's a misnomer, because face it, if you have anything Shimano on your bike, it's not going to be 100% US made. They're advertising an American-made frame only with the "Handmade in the USA" statement.
I don't think that it's a misnomer, because face it, if you have anything Shimano on your bike, it's not going to be 100% US made. They're advertising an American-made frame only with the "Handmade in the USA" statement.
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Originally Posted by emartino
Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa".
Originally Posted by emartino
So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?
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Did you stop to think that maybe Kinesis makes the little black plastic things and cannondale buys them for packing frames? I'm sure Cannondale didn't manufacture the cardboard box, packing tape or bubblewrap either.
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Originally Posted by emartino
Would appreciate someone with a facility in legalese to explain what qualifies as "handmade in usa". I recently purchased a 2007 caad5 frame which bears the usual "handmade in usa" printed on the right rear seatstay. However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company, and while they are world-class in production capabilities im sure, it still isnt an american company. Im assuming therefore the caad frame i got is made in taiwan. So unless kinesis has a "physical presence" in the form of a plant, or a production facility in the US, how can cannondale say the frame is "handmade in the usa"?
anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
anyone know more info on this "handmade in usa" thing? is this just legalistic, well thought out marketing ploy?
The frame was made in Bedford, Pennsylvania. By hand.
Don't assume.
BTW...it appears you are new to the sport. A frame and a fork are two separate and distinct bike parts. The frame is comprised of the head tube, seat tube, down tube, top tube, seat stays, and chain stays.
Hope that helps.
Last, the bike was assembled in Bedford, as well.
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Yes, cannondale sources carbonfiber parts from taiwain. This includes forks and tubes for their aluminum carbon hybrid models. The frames that include carbon fiber tubes are crafted in the usa from overseas and domestic parts
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The Federal Trade Commission had this to say:
"The Commission's action reinstates the longstanding principle that an unqualified U.S. origin claim is a claim that the product is made entirely in the United States except for a de minimis or negligible amount of foreign content."
Their website gives the following example to clear up the distinction between assembly in the USA with USA suppliers using foreign parts:
"A company manufactures food processors in its U.S. plant, making most of the parts, including the housing and blade, from U.S. materials. The motor, which constitutes 50 percent of the food processor’s total manufacturing costs, is bought from a U.S. supplier. The food processor manufacturer knows that the motor is assembled in a U.S. factory. Even though most of the parts of the food processor are of U.S. origin, the final assembly is in the U.S., and the motor is assembled in the U.S., the food processor is not considered "all or virtually all" American-made if the motor itself is made of imported parts that constitute a significant percentage of the appliance’s total manufacturing cost. Before claiming the product is Made in USA, this manufacturer should look to its motor supplier for more specific information about the motor’s origin."
https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/madeusa.shtm
"The Commission's action reinstates the longstanding principle that an unqualified U.S. origin claim is a claim that the product is made entirely in the United States except for a de minimis or negligible amount of foreign content."
Their website gives the following example to clear up the distinction between assembly in the USA with USA suppliers using foreign parts:
"A company manufactures food processors in its U.S. plant, making most of the parts, including the housing and blade, from U.S. materials. The motor, which constitutes 50 percent of the food processor’s total manufacturing costs, is bought from a U.S. supplier. The food processor manufacturer knows that the motor is assembled in a U.S. factory. Even though most of the parts of the food processor are of U.S. origin, the final assembly is in the U.S., and the motor is assembled in the U.S., the food processor is not considered "all or virtually all" American-made if the motor itself is made of imported parts that constitute a significant percentage of the appliance’s total manufacturing cost. Before claiming the product is Made in USA, this manufacturer should look to its motor supplier for more specific information about the motor’s origin."
https://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/...s/madeusa.shtm
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Originally Posted by gcl8a
My 90's Lemond reads "Handmade by Greg Lemond".
I think he welded it in his basement.
I think he welded it in his basement.
Honest.
Cannondale's forks are made by Time, last "time" I checked.
Last edited by Simoni; 04-20-07 at 05:42 AM.
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My frame and fork was made in Waterford Wisconsin. And you could use an American made fork, even carbon, if you wished. My saddle was also made in the good ol USA.
But I didn't buy them because they were American, I bought them because they were terrific and just right for me.
Don't worry too much about it. If you want, you can replace a few pieces with American made.
You could start another thread asking about what parts are made here.
But I didn't buy them because they were American, I bought them because they were terrific and just right for me.
Don't worry too much about it. If you want, you can replace a few pieces with American made.
You could start another thread asking about what parts are made here.
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Originally Posted by emartino
...well thought out marketing ploy?
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Originally Posted by emartino
However, when i picked up the black stick-like plastic thingy that they use to package/protect the fork at the dropouts, it read Kinesis. This is a taiwanese company,
So you're saying that because the 25 cent piece of plastic used to protect the frame and fork dropouts is made by Taiwan-based company that the frame must also be made there?
Those plastic "rods" are probably made very nicely in Taiwan. The frame (I don't know about the fork) is made in the US.
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Originally Posted by Simoni
No, Greg used to do all his welding in the garage due to the smoke and fumes.
Honest.
Cannondale's forks are made by Time, last "time" I checked.
Honest.
Cannondale's forks are made by Time, last "time" I checked.
They were made by Time, but can someone confirm if Time or who supplies their forks now. Its also too bad Cannondale had to cut costs and stop painting forks to match the frame. They used to have some really great paint jobs - now they don't.
Here are two of the great multi-shade fades they used to do, and there were many more:
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"hand made in USA" coulde mean a lot of things.
frame is built overseas and painted in USA
everything is made overseas and bike is assembled in USA
Tubes are made overseas and frame is welded together in USA
could be any of the above, I dont know anyone in the industry with strong cannondale ties so i cant say for sure.
frame is built overseas and painted in USA
everything is made overseas and bike is assembled in USA
Tubes are made overseas and frame is welded together in USA
could be any of the above, I dont know anyone in the industry with strong cannondale ties so i cant say for sure.
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Do folks who buy Toyota Camry's get all hung up about which parts were sourced from Japan or otherwise, even though the car is "Assembled In USA" ??
Corporations who want to sell products globally have to think globally. If that means sourcing CF parts from Taiwan (acknowledged by most at the authority on mass production CF), and mating them to a frame that is produced in the US, then that is what they do. Then they add on some Shimano components from Japan and some Michelin tires from France.
Cannondale has been making quality aluminum frames for a few decades now and that experience allows them to build their aluminum frames in the US. Going to the Synapse line, they probably recognized that they would get a better product by designing it themselves and then outsourcing the production of the CF frames to Taiwan. Good for them if they think this will result in a higher quality product for the consumer.
It's hard to get jingoistic about cycling gear when it's almost impossible for most to build a whole bike with USA designed, sourced, and produced parts.
YMMV
Corporations who want to sell products globally have to think globally. If that means sourcing CF parts from Taiwan (acknowledged by most at the authority on mass production CF), and mating them to a frame that is produced in the US, then that is what they do. Then they add on some Shimano components from Japan and some Michelin tires from France.
Cannondale has been making quality aluminum frames for a few decades now and that experience allows them to build their aluminum frames in the US. Going to the Synapse line, they probably recognized that they would get a better product by designing it themselves and then outsourcing the production of the CF frames to Taiwan. Good for them if they think this will result in a higher quality product for the consumer.
It's hard to get jingoistic about cycling gear when it's almost impossible for most to build a whole bike with USA designed, sourced, and produced parts.
YMMV
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I don't think Time makes the forks now. They've stopped putting "Made by Time" on the forks a few years back when they started using the "Slice Premium" forks.
China and Taiwan are the CF kings. As a rough estimate, I'd say 60-70% of all CF bikes and parts are from Taiwan.
China and Taiwan are the CF kings. As a rough estimate, I'd say 60-70% of all CF bikes and parts are from Taiwan.
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The tubes are from Kinesis in Taiwan (good stuff, by the way). The frame was designed and is welded in the USA, thus it's "made" here. No big deal.
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The frame has "Handmade in the USA" and that is accurate, the frame was manufactured in the USA. The other parts will have the country of origin printed or stamped on them. Look at the backside of the derailers, the decal on the rim, the stampings on the hubs, etc., you will find the country of origin on all of them.
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Originally Posted by jschatz
The tubes are from Kinesis in Taiwan (good stuff, by the way). The frame was designed and is welded in the USA, thus it's "made" here. No big deal.
I'd believe if the "Premium" forks are now from Kinesis, but I'm almost certain the aluminum is sourced directly from Alcoa. (and thanks Alcoa for that nice stock profit last 2 quarters).
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I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.
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Originally Posted by v1k1ng1001
I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.
Nodoubt.... Au natural can display quality
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Originally Posted by v1k1ng1001
I've always laughed at Cannondale's "handmade in USA" slogan because it gives you the impression that the frame was welded by some craftsmen. The truth is that the bikes are welded on an assembly line with each welder handling one particular weld. And then they sand the welds so that, upon inspection, it is impossible to judge the quality of the weld.
I am just laughing at this.
I've been to the factory and watched them build frames.
As Botto would say, "incorrect"...
Why, oh why do people feel the need to particpate in a thread where they have zero knowledge?
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Originally Posted by Simoni
I am just laughing at this.
I've been to the factory and watched them build frames.
As Botto would say, "incorrect"...
Why, oh why do people feel the need to particpate in a thread where they have zero knowledge?
I've been to the factory and watched them build frames.
As Botto would say, "incorrect"...
Why, oh why do people feel the need to particpate in a thread where they have zero knowledge?
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Originally Posted by teterider
I'd believe if the "Premium" forks are now from Kinesis, but I'm almost certain the aluminum is sourced directly from Alcoa. (and thanks Alcoa for that nice stock profit last 2 quarters).
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I don't know if this is still true but in the '60's shirt manufacturers
could say made in U.S.A. if the last three buttons were sewn on
in the U.S.A.
could say made in U.S.A. if the last three buttons were sewn on
in the U.S.A.