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Building Custom Wheels

Old 05-01-07, 07:51 PM
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Building Custom Wheels

Could I get some feedback on what to consider, as far as getting some custom wheels made for me? The usual ingredients would be good rolling ability, a recommended number of spokes ... while being somewhat light, quiet, comfortable ... and compatible for Dura Ace 10-speed?

The riding area would be Southeast Michigan, which is fairly level, but there are some moderate inclines to be encountered.

My bike setup will be Legend ST frame with carbon accessories (forks, handlebars, stem, seatpost). For club rides: How to choose rim, hub, number of spokes per wheel, and type of spokes? I'm fifty years old, my height is 5'3". I will soon weigh 160 lbs, and will weigh 150 lbs in a few months.

Anyone want to stick their neck out and recommend a nice rolling ... quiet ... rear hub that is very compatible with the Dura Ace 12-27 cassette?
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Old 05-01-07, 08:31 PM
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Any hub with a Shimano 8,9,10 freehub body will work with your cassette.

How much do you weigh and what is your riding style. Do you like to climb while out of the saddle or seated. Do you lead-ass potholes, or float over them with your butt off the seat. Etc., etc....

In the words of Keith Bontrager, "Light, Durable, Cheap....Pick any two"...or something to that effect.
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Old 05-01-07, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Any hub with a Shimano 8,9,10 freehub body will work with your cassette.

How much do you weigh and what is your riding style. Do you like to climb while out of the saddle or seated. Do you lead-ass potholes, or float over them with your butt off the seat. Etc., etc....

In the words of Keith Bontrager, "Light, Durable, Cheap....Pick any two"...or something to that effect.
I only know of one wheel builder at the moment: < https://www.excelsports.com >. Of the hub that look promising (DT, Chris King, Dura Ace 7800), I did not see on this website as to whether these hubs had a Shimano 8, 9, 10 freehub body ... so how do you know if they will work with a Dura Ace 12-27?

I weigh 170 now, should be close to 160 lbs by the end of May (when my new bike is finished), and hope to be around 150 lbs by end of summer. I tend to stay in the saddle 98 percent of the time. No bunny-hopping over pot-holes ... at my age (50), I'll just steer around them. To choose from Keith Bontrager's three choices: I select Light and Durable. So with this in mind ... what is the forum's recommendations for quality rear hubs as far as using Dura Ace 12-27 cassette?
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Old 05-01-07, 09:34 PM
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There are many wheel builders out there. I have heard that Excel does a great job. You could do worse. All of the hubs that they have which you listed will work with your cassette. Just specify Shimano.

Light and Durable are set so Cheap is out the window. Others on here will have great recomendations. I would just end up sticking you with a DT RR rims, DT Comp 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes, 28 rear 3X, 24 front 2X.

For hubs...pick whichever is in your price range. All that you mention are great hubs. Stay away from CK hubs if you dislike noise pollution.
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Old 05-01-07, 11:09 PM
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I agree with psimiet2001 for the most part, although 3x is usually overdoing it on a 28h wheel. 2x will be the closest to tangential without going over (which can cause stress at the flange). The rest of the components are a trade-off. Velocity Aerohead rims will be a tad lighter but not as durable as the DT RR. For other builders, I've heard a lot of good things on this board about Mike Garcia www.oddsandendos.com Check out their Niobium30 rim, which is more aero at a small weight penalty,
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Old 05-01-07, 11:36 PM
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Yeah, I suck at picking how many crosses there should be. That I know.
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Old 05-02-07, 01:36 AM
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of the hubs you listed, I would get dura ace. dura ace and record hubs are smooooooth...and if you want shimano compadible...just go with dura ace. compare the price of these, DTs are way over priced...I just hate it when the skewers don't come with the hubs. note that DT and King hubs are listed without the weight of the skewers. I would get aero rims...something like a mavic cpx 33. if you don't have mountains to climb, go with aerodynamics. check out cervelo's website about the aero and speed: https://www.cervelo.com/section.aspx?m=Engineering
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Old 05-02-07, 04:12 AM
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From Psimet2001:
"Light and Durable are set so Cheap is out the window. Others on here will have great recomendations. I would just end up sticking you with a DT RR rims, DT Comp 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes, 28 rear 3X, 24 front 2X"
I do not understand the above abbreviations. What does DT RR rims mean ... and what does DT Comp 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes mean?

From urbanknight:
"3x is usually overdoing it on a 28h wheel. 2x will be the closest to tangential without going over (which can cause stress at the flange)."
Excel Sport's website mentions that 2x lacing is recommended for 28 spokes and 3x lacing is recommended for 32 spokes. Questions please:
1. For someone who weighs between 150 and 160 pounds, and for basically doing Class B club rides, would the wheels be strong enough if I considered 24 spokes in the front and 28 spokes in the back?
2. Is there a recommended lacing for 24 spokes in the front? I would assume if 2x is recommended for 28 spokes, then 2x would also be good for 24 spokes.
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Old 05-02-07, 04:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Motorad
From Psimet2001:
"Light and Durable are set so Cheap is out the window. Others on here will have great recomendations. I would just end up sticking you with a DT RR rims, DT Comp 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes, 28 rear 3X, 24 front 2X"
I do not understand the above abbreviations. What does DT RR rims mean ... and what does DT Comp 2.0-1.8-2.0 spokes mean?
The 2.0-1.8-2.0 reference is a reference to the size (width) of each spoke. It's a double-butted spoke, meaning thicker on the ends then it is in the middle.

The "DT" reference is a reference to this company: https://www.dtswiss.com/. They make rims and spokes (among other things).

The "28 rear 3X" means build the rear wheel with 28 spokes and have each spoke cross three other spokes between the hub and the rim. Likewise, "24 front 2X" means build the front wheel with 24 spokes each of which cross two others between the hub and the rim. The more "spoke crossings" you have, the stronger the resulting wheel will be. Rear wheels take more abuse then the front wheels do, so they're usually built stronger.
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Old 05-02-07, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Motorad
I only know of one wheel builder at the moment: < https://www.excelsports.com >. Of the hub that look promising (DT, Chris King, Dura Ace 7800), I did not see on this website as to whether these hubs had a Shimano 8, 9, 10 freehub body ... so how do you know if they will work with a Dura Ace 12-27?

I weigh 170 now, should be close to 160 lbs by the end of May (when my new bike is finished), and hope to be around 150 lbs by end of summer. I tend to stay in the saddle 98 percent of the time. No bunny-hopping over pot-holes ... at my age (50), I'll just steer around them. To choose from Keith Bontrager's three choices: I select Light and Durable. So with this in mind ... what is the forum's recommendations for quality rear hubs as far as using Dura Ace 12-27 cassette?
Mike Garcia www.oddsandendos.com
Ligero www.ligerowheels.com

Two great wheelbuilders. Hub.. any 8,9,10 speed hub will work on your cassette. One suggestion, if you mainly ride in flats then why not get an 11-23 cassette?
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Old 05-02-07, 06:45 AM
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Any Shimano or Campy loose-ball hubs are going to be the smoothest. You need Shimano for your cassette, so anything at or above the Tiagra level is going to roll like a dream. Make sure the hub bearings are adjusted properly before riding (they ship overtightened, which will kill a hub prematurely).

For a rim, I'd recommend something like a Velocity Aerohead (EDIT: OC for the rear) for a good weight/aero balance. You can probably go with 28h rear and 24h front if you're not looking for them to last forever. Keep in mind that the lower-end Shimano hubs are available in fewer spoke counts (higher counts only).

For number of spoke crosses, I'd go look in the Mechanics forum and search to read all the theories and reasoning. Nothing wrong with 3x all the way around, and anything else offers very, very little benefit. Still, it's worth learning about.

I'd recommend butted spokes, because they stretch more to reach tension, which will help keep them from going slack when you hit a really big bump -- so it makes a stronger wheel. There is no practical effect on stiffness.

Last edited by waterrockets; 05-02-07 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 05-02-07, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Motorad
1. For someone who weighs between 150 and 160 pounds, and for basically doing Class B club rides, would the wheels be strong enough if I considered 24 spokes in the front and 28 spokes in the back?
2. Is there a recommended lacing for 24 spokes in the front? I would assume if 2x is recommended for 28 spokes, then 2x would also be good for 24 spokes.
I am currently riding on 24 front and 28 rear and weigh 160. It's not a problem. My main concern is that I have enough spokes that I can ride home even if one snaps. 2x is ideal for the front as well, although I have recently come to the conclusion that radial is fine for most front wheel applications today (although this will only save you about 10 grams)

Psimet, of course there are exceptions for high flange hubs, deep dish rims, 650c size, etc. but in general 36-40 spokes like 4x, 32 spokes like 3x, 24-28 like 2x, and I don't like to play with any less than 24 spokes. I posted a pic somewhere around here of I think a 72 spoke 8x wheel from one of those high wheel bikes in a cowboy museum. I'll see if I can find it.

edit: found it. https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...hlight=8+cross
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Old 06-24-07, 04:42 PM
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Smooth Hubs

Does anyone have a comment on ceramic bearings? They are pricey, and smoother than steel from the demo's I've seen. I want to know if anyones tried them, and how they felt about them. Thanks riders.
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Old 06-24-07, 04:55 PM
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For 28h, I like to do 3x on the driveside and 2x on the non-drive. It evens out the tension and I think builds a stiffer, stronger wheel.
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Old 06-24-07, 05:03 PM
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Zipp 404s. That is all.
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Old 06-24-07, 05:08 PM
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Even Tension

How about with an Aerohead O.C. rim. These take care of some of the uneaven tension problems form what I've seen, and can be laced the same both sides. Correct?
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Old 06-24-07, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by nitropowered
For 28h, I like to do 3x on the driveside and 2x on the non-drive. It evens out the tension and I think builds a stiffer, stronger wheel.
That will work, but it won't "even the tension" (makes it slightly worse), and it *will* make the wheel a tiny bit stiffer laterally... but then radial heads in will make it the stiffest of all... and make the tension more uneven. Basically this is simple math, and you will either get more even tension or less lateral stiffness, and not both... unless you go with triplet lacing.

An offset rim is a good idea if you are using a shallow rim, but it really doesn't make a big difference. The deeper rims will take higher tension and end up being a stronger wheel... as well as more aero. BTW, a CXP33 isn't very aero at only 23mm deep. The Nio30 is 31mm deep and is a good light rim.

Lacing patterns are not something you really need to worry about... anything sort of normal will work fine.

Any 8,9, or 10spd hub will take a 10spd cassette. I would suggest White Industries hubs because they are nice, light, and have a Ti cassette body that is much more durable than the aluminum ones that most other light hubs have (including DT). A hub like DA with deeper splines is ok though.

I think these wheels would be good for somebody your size if you are interested in a good mix of high performance (aero and low weight) and reasonable cost.
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