Difference between Reynolds steel grades
 

Can anyone tell me the diff between all the Reynolds steel grades? I've seen 520, 631, etc. But everyone seems to have a preference to one or the other. I'd like to know what properties each has (as far as ride quality, practicality, etc.) and what activities is each suited for.

Discuss.

As a general rule for reynolds tubing, the higher the number the thinner and lighter the tubing and the higher the yeild stress of the steel.

531 is the original, and was on most of the race bikes of the 50's through 60's and into the 70s, as a result it's pretty coveted by vintage collectors.

520 is kind of the modern replacement for 531, now as an entry level tubing set.

631 is a modern chro-moly blend, pretty similar to what surly uses. It's reynolds mid level tubing set.

753 came out in the 70's as a much lighter tubing alternative to 531, it can only be silver brazed due to properties of the steel. Also a very coveted tubing set for vintage bikes.

853 is a modern quality tubing set used by custom and taiwanese builders alike. It's usually welded because it hardens around the welds.

953 is the newest and thinnest tubing, but reynolds has been having trouble getting the wall thickness to spec, so it's not that much better than 853 yet.


You can also find more on the reynolds site, those are just my thoughts.

853 is the cadillac of steel rides. It rides very smooth if the bike is designed properly and is slightly heavy but not compared to other steel frames. It is the perfect material (in steel that is) for a touring or long ride type bike. Not as well suited for climbing and sprinting, due to frame weight and some flex in the bottom area.
Absorbes road vibration very well and with a good fork is really a comfortable riding material.

I'm particularly looking for a steel frame to work as a touring build. It's really confusing to see all these different ones. I appreciate the extra opinions here in addition to what I read on the Reynolds site.

Lots of good reading here.

In general though - 953 is stainless steel, you can probably forget that. I own steel bikes in 725 and 853 and they perform equally (as well as 953). Touring bikes are sometimes lugged so you see the 500, 600 and 700 series being used, although I believe one can build a lugged 853 frame.

The tube specifications themselves matter very slightly in the performance of a bike. What matters is the geometry and overall design. Those are the areas you should be focusing on in choosing a touring (or road for that matter) bike. If you're going with a rack bike, tubing selection is off the table. If you're going custom, have this discussion with your builder of choice.

It's really confusing how manufacturers keep throwing the grades around like marketing terms.

I had always wondered why stainless was never used for bicycles. Why did it take so long for someone to come up with a stainless solution?

531 was still being used well into the 1990's. I've got a ca. 1993 531 steel frame, and race it.

Look into True Temper OX Platinum and S3 in comparison to 853

They throw them around like marketing terms because they are all about marketing and to an additional extent, product development. Tube MFGRs develop new products to compete with each other. And they market them so that consumers will demand bikes made with them and thus drive sales. Because, as we all know, newer is always better.

Builders have a vested stake since a given tubeset is easier/harder/better/worse to work with and because they can be translated into a faster/heavier/slower/lighter/compliant/stiff frame depending on the consumer's particular needs. But by and large, big bike MFGRs offer frames in new tubesets in order to compete with their rivals and to attract our dollars. Small custom builders use certain sets because they can be built in a way they want their products built.

For the bulk of us though, it's really unimportant unless we have specific needs. If you want a 2.8 lb. steel frame, 531 is probably not going to cut it but S3 might. If you want a robust dirt road touring bike, S3 or Ultra Foco are probably not good choices. If you want a lugged steel retro model, S3 again is not going to be the right thing. But if you're just looking for a steel frame of a reasonable weight to ride the roads, just about anything can be built the way you want it.

Re: stainless. It's nothing new. The current offerings are just easier to work with than the old offerings and the supply side appears more robust. There were problems with earlier versions of stainless and thus they never caught on among the builders. There are also problems this time around and most of the custom builders I have worked with have told me they expect the product to fail dramatically in the marketplace. However, there are always a few nutcase steel fans who will have to have one, just because, and so there will be some sales via those willing to put up with the pain of working with the stuff. I fall into that category which is why I've been riding a 953 frame since last October.

Having both 520 and 631, I can't really tell the difference. Maybe I need to pay more attention to the ride...usually though, I just focus on the fun!

You homesick, OP??

That's the unmistakable NYC skyline in that sig.

I agree, I have a 8-5-3 on my 1998 Schwinn (paramont) tube set and it is total comfort.

I have a Peugeot PKN-10 with Reynolds 531 mainframe and an alp d'huez 853. They are both excellent tubesets but i really think 853 has superior ride characteristics.

Addendum to Hocam: 525 is the entry-level tubeset produced by Reynolds
The 520 tubes are manufactured in Taiwan to Reynolds specifications. Somewhat niggling point,
but worth noting.

Having owned 631, 853, Platinum OX, and a bike that is a mix of 853 and OX, I would say that 853 and OX are equivalent. They are both superior in ride to the lower grades. They feel more lively and at the same time less flexy. I guess the best way to say it is the 853 and OX both flex when they are supposed to and are stiff when they need to be. The lower grades don't do this as well. Columbus also has a 853 grade, but I don't know what it is.

As for 953 (stainless), I've been investigating the Independent Fabrication offering and they tell me the build issues mostly stem from the fact that the material is so hard.

Where does FOCO fit in on this discussion? What type of steel is it ,what are it's strengths ?

I dislike the word "grade" as applied to high quality steel tubes, as they are all essentially the same "grade" of steel. Based on various treatments, it is possible to make the walls of some steel tubes thinner and stronger, with a lighter frame resulting. But, those thinner, stronger walls are more likely to suffer from crash damage, and many such tubes can NOT be safely realigned after a crash, because the process that makes them light and strong also makes them brittle.

The heavier Reynolds steel tubes made with butted tubes is roughly similar in weight and other qualities to traditional 4130 cro-mo. That sort of steel tube flexes under stress, and if it bends a small amount in a crash, it can be realigned.

Therefore, where durability is the key factory, such as in loaded touring and mountain bikes designed to be REALLY ridden hard, the traditional steel tubing is the "best" tube for the job. If you are a pro, and you are trying to win a time trial (and your bike was free) getting the lightest frame possible is important, even if that frame is a "one crash" frame...heck, you got the bike for free.

So, "best" is relative to the needs of the rider. One of the coolest things about steel tubes for bikes is that a skilled bike maker can match the tubes precisely to the role of a particular bike.

Many of the custom builders "mix and match" different types of Reynolds tubes on a single bike. Schwinn used a "mix and match" of Reynolds tubes on the Paramount, and even used straight gauge for some tubes on the size 62 and 64 models for added stiffness.

What does the "c" of Reynolds 531c mean?

^^^^

"c" if you can guess what I mean.

I have a custom 731 OS bike in the closet.

competition

If you are looking for a touring bike, the ultimate touring steel is 531st (st stands for super touring). The steel is a bit thicker than normal 531 and 531c. You then build up a fairly stiff frame, so that it doesn't wobble like a noodle when you load it up with camping gear. Most British touring bikes are built with 631 or 725 these days. They seem to be the best replacements for 531st.

I have attached a Reynolds transfer sheet from the mid-90's or so. It even includes exotics like 708, which was (I think) Raleigh specific. Enjoy!

yes, 'Competition", but I was always told that it just means that the stays are also 531, where on a standard 531, the stays might be 525 or 501,********** Not sure about that one

there's info on the Reynolds site

http://www.reynolds-cycle.com/english.html

Don't forget Columbus, True Temper and Dedacciai

Foco and Ultrafoco aren't on the Columbus site anymore, but there might be some still lying around. As far as I know, it was Columbus' answer to Reynolds 853. It's very similar in weight

there's some spiel on this old link: http://www.kvanproductions.com/cycling/Foco.htm

It's been replaced by the 2 light niobium steels, Spirit and Life, and Columbus also still offers Zona, which is kinda like the old Genius and Nemo

http://www.columbustubi.com/eng/4_4_3.htm