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Floyd Landis fan

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Floyd Landis fan

Old 06-09-07, 09:21 AM
  #1  
andrewking
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Floyd Landis fan

I've been riding for a while now and I'm starting to get into the sport of cycling. I've read a few books, starting following racing on Versus, and subscribed to magazines. A few days ago I started reading Lance Armstrong's War. I'm a huge fan of Lance, but as I read this book, I find myself becoming more and more of a Floyd Landis fan. I know about the doping and everything but from the book I just like the guy. When the book goes back to Lance, I find myself wanting more stories about Floyd. I wonder if anyone else felt the same way from reading the book. Anyway, it's a great book (the best I've read so far) and I'm now a Floyd Landis fan.
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Old 06-09-07, 10:18 AM
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I'm a fan of both of those guys but doping has turned me off from pro cycling.

When I read the book, though, I felt the same way. I loved the Floyd chapter.
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Old 06-09-07, 11:07 AM
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Floyd = Dope
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Old 06-09-07, 11:10 AM
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You guys might want to not watch any type of professional sporting events anymore then....
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Old 06-09-07, 01:09 PM
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Floyd's great... I've never understood all the haters... well, I guess I do, just bitter guys who're jealous- but seriously, why do they waste their time tearing somebody down when they could be on the bike making themselves faster?

The other thing that irks me about the haters is their logic... it goes something like "Okay, even though the evidence against Floyd isn't great, and there is NO evidence against Lance, everybody dopes, so they must be dopers..."

Following that logic, if everybody dopes, the playing field is level. So if Floyd and Lance are that good doped when everyone else is doped, they must be that good clean if everyone else is clean.

Any way you slice it, either clean or doped competing against dopers, Floyd is great...
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Old 06-09-07, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by VT to CA
Floyd's great... I've never understood all the haters... well, I guess I do, just bitter guys who're jealous- but seriously, why do they waste their time tearing somebody down when they could be on the bike making themselves faster?

The other thing that irks me about the haters is their logic... it goes something like "Okay, even though the evidence against Floyd isn't great, and there is NO evidence against Lance, everybody dopes, so they must be dopers..."

Following that logic, if everybody dopes, the playing field is level. So if Floyd and Lance are that good doped when everyone else is doped, they must be that good clean if everyone else is clean.

Any way you slice it, either clean or doped competing against dopers, Floyd is great...
I tend to think that Lance was successful because of his drive and determination and that he'd be willing to cut anyone off if he felt that they were detracting from his goals. I tend to think his personality would drive him to be successful at anything he really wanted to do. The book mentioned in the OP ("Lance Armstrongs War") completely re-affirmed my beliefs about Lance.

Floyd? I think he's been getting a raw deal in the media and court of public perception. I also think he surrounded himself with some serious sleazeballs ("hey Greggie, it's your uncle and we'll talk about your wee wee"). What a shame.
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Old 06-09-07, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kensuf
I also think he surrounded himself with some serious sleazeballs
Exactly! FL is his own worse enemy. I agree that the lab work is spotty at best and to convict him based on that is questionable but at this point in time I really just wish he'd go away. (and take the backwards baseball caps, inability to keep his mouth shut and the slimeball entourage with him.)

The sport is better off w/o him IMO.

(Jeez I hope I'm not a hater


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Old 06-09-07, 03:03 PM
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I'm a hater, he's a doper and a sleeze.

I was not always anti-floyd but his true colors came out in the past year. Don't rate people for how they act when things are going well, rate them when things are not so great. I think you saw the real floyd in the letter he wrote in the Daily Peloton. My Floyd poster and the signed picture I had with him went into the trashcan when I learned what the "information" he threatened to reveal was.

And what happened to all of the conspiracies and other "facts" that were in Floyd's power point. Only about 15% of the power point information was presented in his hearing. Could it be the threat of a perjury charge? Fear of closer scrutiny by non-laymen? I don't know.

When it comes down to it I don't know if he doped. If his hearing was a criminal trial I don't think he could be convicted. But it is not a criminal case. There is a difference between "Proof beyond a reasonable doubt" and a "Preponderance of evidence" and from what I have read I feel the preponderance of evidence says Floyd Landis had synthetic testosterone on board. OJ was not guilty of killing his wife and her boyfriend in criminal court but he was found to be liable for their deaths in civil court.

I had lots of time while riding to mull it over.
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Old 06-09-07, 03:50 PM
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Look, he's either clean and the sport isn't as dirty as it's thought to be (and he's an unreal rider) or he's a doper and the sport is just as dirty as assumed (and since he has no more advantage than the next guy, he's an unreal rider)

Your calling him a doper and throwing out his poster hints that you think doping is what allowed him to win. Surely you're not so naive that you believe there is a possibility that among the pro peloton, he and only a few others are dopers, giving him an unfair advantage?

You know what? f*ck it. Let's say for a minute he did dope. The fault ultimately lies with the UCI. You can't "clean up" a sport by being lax enough to let everyone to dope, indeed create an atmosphere where to just be on even ground an athlete has to dope, and then turn around and bust only the winners. That's ********. If they stripped Lance or Floyd of every win tomorrow, do you think the 2's those wins would go to rode those races clean?

I'll use a stupid analogy...

Ever played a fighting video game with a buddy, like Streetfighter or Tekken or something? When you select your character, you can also select your power. Stock power is like 50% or something. If you both fight stock, it's fair, and whoever wins won because they're the better player. If you both select 100% power, it's still fair, because neither has the advantage. Whoever wins the 100% bout is still the better fighter, powered up or not.

However it plays with Floyd, he won the TDF because he was the best rider, end of story.

I'll agree that he does surround himself with some sleazeballs, but hell, so did JFK...
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Old 06-09-07, 04:59 PM
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I have a friend that pitched in college and for a few years in the minors (A). Anacdotal evidence suggests that MLB and UCI are not dissimilar in their doping enforcement efforts. A question to my friend was "how did you avoid it?"--look, he could throw 90mph (with control) but pros are looking for mid 90s at worst...a little juice and he would have been there! In short, his answer was moral courage..."it wasn't right. It wasn't me..."

Though Floyd is an effing amazing rider, he does not have as much moral courage as my friend Pete. So things being what they are, "everyone" on the juice, I will continue to be amazed in Floyd's ability with or without additives but I will always be sekptical of his moral authority. But then again I watch pro cycling primarily to wittness the challenge, not to learn a lesson in morals (re: Charles Barkley). Those morals just make the challenge that much more interesting and human.

If UCI/MLB enforcement was more thorough and veracious...our opionions would be less tainted (sorry 'bout the pun). IMO, argument over Floyd is far less important than what happens on the enforcement end at the governing body...

...so long as there is room, ambition and the prize purse will trump morals every time.
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Old 06-09-07, 06:32 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by VT to CA
Look, he's either clean and the sport isn't as dirty as it's thought to be (and he's an unreal rider) or he's a doper and the sport is just as dirty as assumed (and since he has no more advantage than the next guy, he's an unreal rider)

Your calling him a doper and throwing out his poster hints that you think doping is what allowed him to win. Surely you're not so naive that you believe there is a possibility that among the pro peloton, he and only a few others are dopers, giving him an unfair advantage?

You know what? f*ck it. Let's say for a minute he did dope. The fault ultimately lies with the UCI. You can't "clean up" a sport by being lax enough to let everyone to dope, indeed create an atmosphere where to just be on even ground an athlete has to dope, and then turn around and bust only the winners. That's ********. If they stripped Lance or Floyd of every win tomorrow, do you think the 2's those wins would go to rode those races clean?

I'll use a stupid analogy...

Ever played a fighting video game with a buddy, like Streetfighter or Tekken or something? When you select your character, you can also select your power. Stock power is like 50% or something. If you both fight stock, it's fair, and whoever wins won because they're the better player. If you both select 100% power, it's still fair, because neither has the advantage. Whoever wins the 100% bout is still the better fighter, powered up or not.

However it plays with Floyd, he won the TDF because he was the best rider, end of story.

I'll agree that he does surround himself with some sleazeballs, but hell, so did JFK...
+1
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