Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Generic carbon fibre monocoque frames

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Generic carbon fibre monocoque frames

Old 06-20-07, 04:48 AM
  #1  
blackjack51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
blackjack51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Generic carbon fibre monocoque frames

Let's have a quick game of spot the difference with these three frames....



Tommaso Aggraziato:


Diamondback Podium Pro:


Cell Victor:




Is it just me or are these frames, asides from the paint, identical? If so, how many other bike companies out there use this frame and brand it as their own?

Keep an eye out.....
blackjack51 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 06:13 AM
  #2  
lvleph
Should be out Riding
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,902

Bikes: Bob Jackson Vigorelli

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
They seem the same to me, but the Tommaso has a better look. IMO.
lvleph is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 06:22 AM
  #3  
labrat_62
guppy
 
labrat_62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Philly
Posts: 439

Bikes: Kona Nunu, 1960s fugi (now a fixed), 2006 Felt F3C

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
+1 on the tommaso looking best
labrat_62 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 06:36 AM
  #4  
ThinLine
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 1,946

Bikes: Pedal Force RS2, Canyon, Basso, Tommaso, Rock Racing, Schwinn, SWOBO, Trek

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
I have the Tommaso Aggraziato and it is awesome. Yes, they look the same but alot of manufacturers are cloning frames with their private label.
My tommaso comes in at 2.4lbs frame/fork and has excellent specs. Does not matter that another manufacturer wants the same. They are all Asian made decent quality HM CF. It has a lifetime warranty and is an excellent climber.
ThinLine is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 06:51 AM
  #5  
DLH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 331

Bikes: 2006 Motobecane Le Champion SL, Raliegh SP200, Trek 830

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
DLH is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 06:59 AM
  #6  
lvleph
Should be out Riding
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,902

Bikes: Bob Jackson Vigorelli

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by DLH
I was almost going to post that.
lvleph is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 07:01 AM
  #7  
catfour
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 58
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by DLH
Not the same bike.
catfour is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 07:04 AM
  #8  
unbelievably
Senior Member
 
unbelievably's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Under the Thumb
Posts: 1,362
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lvleph
I was almost going to post that.

Why?
What are you comparing it to???
unbelievably is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 07:06 AM
  #9  
lvleph
Should be out Riding
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Blacksburg, VA
Posts: 1,902

Bikes: Bob Jackson Vigorelli

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Yes, it is not the same bike, but it looks very similar. The top tube is not sloping and is not as thick Also, the seat stays are completely different and is the reason why I didn't post it.
lvleph is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 07:10 AM
  #10  
DLH
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Tallahassee
Posts: 331

Bikes: 2006 Motobecane Le Champion SL, Raliegh SP200, Trek 830

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by lvleph
Yes, it is not the same bike, but it looks very similar. The top tube is not sloping and is not as thick Also, the seat stays are completely different and is the reason why I didn't post it.
I agree, but I could not resist. I think it would also fall under generic frames.
DLH is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 07:12 AM
  #11  
blackjack51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
blackjack51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ThinLine
I have the Tommaso Aggraziato and it is awesome. Yes, they look the same but alot of manufacturers are cloning frames with their private label.
My tommaso comes in at 2.4lbs frame/fork and has excellent specs. Does not matter that another manufacturer wants the same. They are all Asian made decent quality HM CF. It has a lifetime warranty and is an excellent climber.

I have a Tommaso also and i can agree that they are outstanding bikes. And valid points made there. As far as we know these other companies may have simply used what was Tommaso's original design.
blackjack51 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 09:01 AM
  #12  
jemoryl
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 1,007
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by blackjack51
I have a Tommaso also and i can agree that they are outstanding bikes. And valid points made there. As far as we know these other companies may have simply used what was Tommaso's original design.
What makes you think that Tommaso had the 'original' design? I'd be willing to be that Tommaso just went shopping in Taiwan for someone who could build them a frame meeting certain specs. Same with the other two (can't really tell if they are identical from the pictures).
jemoryl is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:03 AM
  #13  
asherlighn
Senior Member
 
asherlighn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Portland ME
Posts: 921
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Personally I think the Cell has the best look. Bicycles should be red!

And the only similarity I can see between the moto and the frames in the OP is that they are carbon Different geometry and everything!
asherlighn is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:05 AM
  #14  
voltman
It is fantastic.
 
voltman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: The OC
Posts: 7,977

Bikes: 05 Specialized Allez Elite; 06 Fuji Team Pro

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by blackjack51
Let's have a quick game of spot the difference with these three frames....



Tommaso Aggraziato:


Diamondback Podium Pro:


Cell Victor:




Is it just me or are these frames, asides from the paint, identical? If so, how many other bike companies out there use this frame and brand it as their own?

Keep an eye out.....
Do they all have the same measurements?
voltman is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:12 AM
  #15  
Phantoj
Certifiable Bike "Expert"
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 5,647
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by asherlighn
Personally I think the Cell has the best look. Bicycles should be red!
+1


BUT... I think the Pedal Force group buy bikes (no logos) are better looking that ANY of the bikes posted so far.
Phantoj is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:17 AM
  #16  
alanbikehouston
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,250
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times in 6 Posts
The bike industry is full of "cloners"...companies that can copy the LOOK of another company's products. And sometimes a factory will "clone" its own product. They will make an "A" quality product that wholesales for $200 for Brand "TK", and then make a "lookalike" that is "C" quality that will wholesale to Brand "BD" for $50. Or, the factory will take the frames and forks that company "TK" rejected, after failing quality control testing, and sell the failed frames and forks to a bottom-feeder Brand.

There is an easy way to tell the "A" quality frame from the "C" quality frame. You hire five or six engineers with education and experience in carbon fiber products, and stress and quality control testing. You invest in a multi-million dollar testing facility that allows you to x-ray the product, and to subject each part of the frame to precise levels of stress.

You use your multi-million dollar testing facility to test whether the chainstays can survive two million cycles of low level stress. You test for the maximum "one time" level of stress that will snap a chain stay or a fork leg. You test how the carbon reacts to being in direct sunlight at temperatures about 100 degrees for extended periods of time. You test how the carbon reacts to being in 20 degree temperatures, and how it responds to stress at that temperature

And, after testing the frame and fork to destruction, you cut the frame and fork into small pieces and inspect the pieces internally for signs of damage or delamination. When a given model frame and fork has passed your testing, you ship it to customers with a lifetime warranty that your company is serious about backing.

But, it doesn't end there. Every week, a new batch of frames and forks arrives at the testing facility. They LOOK identical to the frames and forks that arrived last week. You could assume they are of equal quality. But, the serious bike companies (such as Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc.) will grab a random selection of frames and forks, and test them to destruction. Day after day, week after week.

And of course, there is the OTHER method. You e-mail your contacts in Asia. You say "I'm looking for the cheapest carbon frame and fork you can find". When the product arrives, you hire a high school kid to assemble the bike and ride it around the parking lot.

Bottom line: nobody, absolutely nobody, can tell you the quality of a given frame and fork merely by looking at a photograph. And, anyone who buys a cheap frame and fork simply because it LOOKS like a frame and fork sold by a reputable company is gonna get exactly what he paid for. A frame that wholesales for $50 is exactly that: a $50 frame.

Last edited by alanbikehouston; 06-20-07 at 10:23 AM.
alanbikehouston is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:19 AM
  #17  
timmhaan
more ape than man
 
timmhaan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nyc
Posts: 8,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 1 Post
for all practicle purposes, those are essentially all the same bike.
timmhaan is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:22 AM
  #18  
Bluechip
Senior Member
 
Bluechip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cypress TX
Posts: 1,173

Bikes: Salsa Fargo Ti, Cannondale CAAD9, Carbonello Fixed Gear, Specialized Epic Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 37 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 13 Times in 8 Posts
I can only find the specs on the Tommaso https://www.tommasobikes.com/bikes.html but they all come in the same sizes 51,54,57 and 60cm.
Bluechip is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 10:38 AM
  #19  
DocRay
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Mentioned: Post(s)
Tagged: Thread(s)
Quoted: Post(s)
most of these are generic Dedacciai frames.

https://www.dedacciai.com/home_eng.html

Nothing new about this in italian bikes, even with steel frames, there were only really 2-3 manufacturers in the whole country.
 
Old 06-20-07, 10:47 AM
  #20  
mgbguy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Flatland NC
Posts: 253

Bikes: Cervelo P2C, 1982 Univega, Moto Messenger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
The bike industry is full of "cloners"...companies that can copy the LOOK of another company's products. And sometimes a factory will "clone" its own product. They will make an "A" quality product that wholesales for $200 for Brand "TK", and then make a "lookalike" that is "C" quality that will wholesale to Brand "BD" for $50. Or, the factory will take the frames and forks that company "TK" rejected, after failing quality control testing, and sell the failed frames and forks to a bottom-feeder Brand.

There is an easy way to tell the "A" quality frame from the "C" quality frame. You hire five or six engineers with education and experience in carbon fiber products, and stress and quality control testing. You invest in a multi-million dollar testing facility that allows you to x-ray the product, and to subject each part of the frame to precise levels of stress.

You use your multi-million dollar testing facility to test whether the chainstays can survive two million cycles of low level stress. You test for the maximum "one time" level of stress that will snap a chain stay or a fork leg. You test how the carbon reacts to being in direct sunlight at temperatures about 100 degrees for extended periods of time. You test how the carbon reacts to being in 20 degree temperatures, and how it responds to stress at that temperature

And, after testing the frame and fork to destruction, you cut the frame and fork into small pieces and inspect the pieces internally for signs of damage or delamination. When a given model frame and fork has passed your testing, you ship it to customers with a lifetime warranty that your company is serious about backing.

But, it doesn't end there. Every week, a new batch of frames and forks arrives at the testing facility. They LOOK identical to the frames and forks that arrived last week. You could assume they are of equal quality. But, the serious bike companies (such as Trek, Specialized, Giant, etc.) will grab a random selection of frames and forks, and test them to destruction. Day after day, week after week.

And of course, there is the OTHER method. You e-mail your contacts in Asia. You say "I'm looking for the cheapest carbon frame and fork you can find". When the product arrives, you hire a high school kid to assemble the bike and ride it around the parking lot.

Bottom line: nobody, absolutely nobody, can tell you the quality of a given frame and fork merely by looking at a photograph. And, anyone who buys a cheap frame and fork simply because it LOOKS like a frame and fork sold by a reputable company is gonna get exactly what he paid for. A frame that wholesales for $50 is exactly that: a $50 frame.
Did I win the pool on when alan would get here?
mgbguy is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 11:13 AM
  #21  
shabbasuraj
Senior Member
 
shabbasuraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
No name carbon fibre rocks... YAY MARX.
shabbasuraj is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 11:33 AM
  #22  
johnny99
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Originally Posted by alanbikehouston
The bike industry is full of "cloners"...companies that can copy the LOOK of another company's products.
This is sometimes true, but the opposite is also often true. A big-name Euro or USA company may contract with a no-name Taiwan factory to manufacture bike frames, which are then labeled and distributed by the big-name company. The factory will then use the same machinery to make no-name frames as well. However, the no-name frames may use different quality materials or different quality control standards. You cannot judge a frame by looks alone.
johnny99 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 12:04 PM
  #23  
blackjack51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
blackjack51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by jemoryl
What makes you think that Tommaso had the 'original' design? I'd be willing to be that Tommaso just went shopping in Taiwan for someone who could build them a frame meeting certain specs. Same with the other two (can't really tell if they are identical from the pictures).
I don't. I'm merely suggesting possibilities. It may be another bike companies original design, or it may be a design produced by a factory which these companies use.
blackjack51 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 12:06 PM
  #24  
blackjack51
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
blackjack51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 94
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by voltman
Do they all have the same measurements?
Yes they all come in the same range of sizes and have the same measurements from what i gathered.
blackjack51 is offline  
Old 06-20-07, 12:41 PM
  #25  
ggg300
Burnin' and Lootin'
 
ggg300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: SoCA
Posts: 2,713
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
there are a few out there...
ggg300 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.