DC Bruz

Hey all,

Lately I've been having pains in my right knee whenever I ride. It's a bit hard to describe the exact location so I'll point it out for you:



This morning it was happening for about 15 - 20 minutes before it went away. It's not 'OMG IM DYING' pain but it hurts enough for me to know something isn't quite right. I'm **** scared that this could get worse and I won't be able to ride anymore because of it.

What could be causing it? I'm hoping it's something simple like improper fitting or one of my legs being a different size but I get the feeling it could be something worse. Help .

DrPete 

I'd pay a visit to a sports medicine/orthopedic type. It might be a fit issue, but if it's a new injury or you're exacerbating an old one, you might be doing damage whether your bike fits or not. It's just impossible to say without all the details, and that's what the doc is for.

FranckCisco

Hi,

how old are you and any medical injuries in the past? Check with the Doc; no one here is in the position to help you than yourself and the doc.

The only advice I can offer is try to adjust the fit: move saddles up and down, forward and backward or any stem/handlebar adjustments to see if the pain is still there.

Moreover, if you're a newbie, stick with it for a few weeks to see if it eventually go away. If after all the adjustments, the length and consistency of pain still persist, then check with the Doc. You're basically telling us the symptoms but physicians are trained to tell signs.

DC Bruz

Thanks for the advice.

I'm 18 and I don't think I've ever hurt this knee before. Or the other one.

I've only had this frame for about four months now. It's a lot more 'race friendly' compared to my old one. It is a bit smaller and the handle bars have been lowered further then they were previously. I don't remember having this problem on my old frame.

SpongeDad

Could be lots of things, as alluded to above. Here's some more:

Is the q-factor the same on the new bike? I had some problems going back and forth between bikes with wider and narrower q or pedal spacing.

Also, put a Lemond wedge on one shoe and my knee felt hugely better.

DC Bruz

Umm... q-factor? I've never heard that one before!

SpongeDad

spacing between outside of crank arms and by extension pedals - triples tend to be wider than doubles, so if you're very sensitive to cleat position, going back and forth, that can mess you up

You're pretty young, so the first place I'd look is saddle position (height and set back from the bottom bracket). If it's too low, that can cause knee pain (at least it causes me pain), especially if you're doing hills.

Hammertoe

Check out this site it has a lot of information...

https://www.cptips.com

Specifically on Q-Factor...

https://www.cptips.com/crnklth.htm

The "Q factor"

This is the measurement between the pedal mounting surfaces (outside surface) on the crankarms (and indirectly the distance between the midline of each foot - which translates all the way up to the knees and hips.) The easiest way to determine Q-factor is to remove one crankarm and mount it in-line (not at the 180 degree rotation you use with riding) with the other, then measure the distance between the outside faces of the arms.

Another aspect is the distance between the crankarm and the pedal platform itself. You need more clearance there if your ankle bone hits the crankarm, if you purchase wider shoes or if your winter booties rub the crankarm. You may feel more comfortable with your feet in an outward position (though a few riders prefer the opposite.) The ability to fine-tune Q-factor means that you can make two bikes match, such as your mountain and road bikes. Mountain bikes typically have a significantly wider Q- factor.

Some pricey pedals allow you to adjust the location of the pedal platform and thus the perceived "Q factor", but there are much less costly ways to do so. If you need only a couple of millimeters additional clearance, get a spark-plug washer at an auto-parts store and simply slip it over the pedal axle before you thread it into the crankarm. Depending on the length of the threaded portion, you may be able to use two or three washers for greater spacing. Make sure there's at least half an inch of thread on the pedal shaft in the crankarm.

Is this a big deal for riders? Plenty of serious riders who train and race on road bikes and mountain bikes experience two different Q-factors without problems. So I'd adjust for what feels right for you.

Specifically on the knee...

https://www.cptips.com/knee.htm

DC Bruz

As I said I've been riding a new frame for the past couple of months. It's the same Crank and Pedals from my old bike so unless Bottom Bracket is wider, which I doubt, things are the same they were before. However I'm fairly certain the sizing is really different compared to my old set up. It looks like it might be worth visiting the LBS and having some words. I get nervous going to the doc

ac29593

My guess is that you are trying to pedal bigger gears than you can handle, and riding them at a slow cadence. Ill bet that its nothing more than a bit of tendinitis, but could get worse if you keep up the same routines. Try riding at a faster cadence and spinning smaller gears until you strengthen up more, stretch everyday, and see if the pain goes away.

DC Bruz

I've actually been spinning a lot more then I used to it. I try and keep myself around 90RPM or higher. I don't like the feeling of grinding higher gears because I realize how inefficient it is, for me anyway.

Campag4life

DC aside from the other good advice, consider your feet alignment themselves. Pedaling kinematics is pretty important. The two things to look for are you slew footed, i.e. walk like a duck or pigeon toed.
The orientation of your cleats should follow your natural walk pattern though generally not quite as extreme. The other thing you have to consider is the neutrality of your feet in terms of supination/pronation. If you naturally walk supinated for example, you may want to space down the inside of your cleats to make the bed of the shoe agree with how your foot naturally hangs.
These are the two planes of interest. There are very few people that have so called neutral feet in either plane. Experimentation with cleat position is key...I have done this extensively. If your knees don't track properly you are going to side load them and induce pain. Take it easy and assess your cleat position before you jump to any conclusions.
Good Luck.

soggydog

I started getting a knee pain last month in about the same spot that you have pointed out after riding the same bike with the same set up for the last couple of years. After reading as many posts on BF as I could plus other web sites relating to knee pain I decided to check the fit on my bike. I ended up lowering the saddle about 3/8 of an inch and buying Speedplay pedals with 25 degrees of float. On the next ride I notice only a slight pain in my knee but on my second ride after changes I went 37 miles with lots of climbing and no pain. Now everything seems to be back to normal with no pain at all. Not sure if it was the pedals or the saddle adjustment but I like to think it was a combination of both.

BP302

Wow! That's the exact location I'm having problems with except mines on the left knee. I bought a new bike 2 months ago and also just started jogging again to cross train so I'm not sure if my problem is the bike or the jogging. I think I need to ease up a bit on my workout routine and the sore knee will go away.

oilman_15106

Proper bike fit is the key to pain free cycling. This will not be of much help but had terrible knee pain. Went to the doc. mri. Nothing could be found as the source. Ice and rest were the only answer. Started messing with fit and pedals. Went to Bebop pedals for the float and have not had a problem in 2 years.

2Tired2Shift

18? You're not old enough to even know how to spell pain.

DC Bruz

I'm thinking I might get the LBS to have a look at my cleats. They did the bike fitting themselves and I trust them on it however I replaced the cleats myself a few months back. Chances are they've moved and it's causing problems now.

2Tired2Shift

I had a similar pain on the outside of my knee once; it was from having my saddle too low. I took a few days off, raised my saddle to an acceptable height and never had the problem again.

DC Bruz

On my way home I was able to analyse my pedalling style and I think I may have found the problem.

As someone mentioned earlier having my feet on an angle could be causing the problem. I think there's a good chance of this being true. My right foot slightly turns to the left when I'm pedalling and it would make sense for my knee to hurt because of this. I conciously made an effort to keep my foot straight and it felt so much better. I don't know if this is the problem for sure but I know that my foot has been curved and straightening it made it easier.

Dynamic

Chiropractor?
my club has a newsletter that has an ad for a chiropractor who has "treated many cyclists"

dekindy

Are you using clipless pedals. Cleat wear increases the seat height. My knees started hurting and clipping in was not nearly as smooth when my cleats were worn. Once I replaced the old cleats with new cleats, the problem went away.

DC Bruz

Yeah I have clip less pedals.

dekindy

You need some Lemond shims. They are designed with one side thicker than the other. I could not keep my knees in until I had a fitting and the Lemond wedges were installed. This instantly kept my knees in the same plane as my pedals.

You can get others opinions, but I think having some float as opposed to zero float is more comfortable, at least for me.

dekindy

My LBS only charges $5 to install new cleats which is well worth it IMHO.

cyclezen

If the knee pains are acute, I'd stop and allow a few days of 'recovery'. If, as you say, you've not had these issues before, then likely some adjustment is significantly off from what might be optimum.
Get your saddle height ballpark close - set so when you have >your heels centered on the pedalspindle <, and while rolling along, you can either pedal or backpedal without having to rock your hips to do that. Means you get full leg extension, but not so much you have to rock from one side to the other to finish the stroke (again, with your heels on the pedal).
Then, cleat rotation. VERY Important!
each leg may be different, significantly from the other, mine are for sure, and so are many other riders'. So having a different roation from right to left is a distinct possibility. There is always an 'angle'. Find the best one for each leg is the hard part...
There are a number of ways to determine rotation. I use an Old-Kook way which I learned way back when we used to nail cleats onto our soles... I still use it successfully to help others set up their cleats, but it needs a set of platform pedals with cages (MTB pedals & cages OK) to do this properly.
Otherwise there's prolly plenty of 'opinions' on pedal rotation and how to set it, here on BF, if you do a search.
How far forward or aft you set the cleat seems to be a topic of current discourse, discussion and speculation. But in many years of performance cycling, I've found KOPS is always a good start point (do a search for "Knee Over Pedal Spindle" or KOPS and you'll have plenty O readin).

If you try to do much adjustment while you're achin, you won;t get far, since the knee is already aggravated. Best to let the knee recover a bit before doin anything.
Takes lots of notes on your current 'position' before making adjustments, takes notes on what you adjust and how much.
You'll ask "What should I measure?" - that would be a serious long post, so again, best to do a search on 'Fit' 'Position' and settle down for some long reading time and evaluation.
or
pay a 'Fit' specialist to get you started and close and make sure he/she is willing to explain everything he looks at and does, soz you develop some understanding.
If the knee pain persists and doesn't improve, I'd definitely see an MD and getting some advise there.
best of luck.