Markedoc

I like to ride solo, but have a friend who likes to ride with me. The problem is, she doesn't seem to have much riding "common sense". Is there a link to a list of common sense rules to ride by?

For example, this person like to ride the the left of my rear wheel. When potholes or glass come up, I have to look to see where she is before I maneuver around the pothole/glass. Sometimes I end up riding through crap because I have no where to go. The other "problem" with riding left and slightly behind me is that when I turn to look for traffic, she has my vision blocked.

Same goes for when she wants to ride side-by-side. An obstruction comes up, and even if she's a foot or 2 ahead of me, instead of speeding up, she'll brake and go behind me. Problem is, I'll brake too in order to left her get ahead. Not an effective or efficient combination!

It seems to me like the best place to be is more or less directly behind the lead rider, giving them the cushion they need if they need to swerve around an obstacle.

Also, when going through a traffic area, I kind of assume it makes sense to stay together - ie - no huge gap - so as not to frustrate patient car drivers ...

Thoughts?

Random

I think that you would be the best teacher. Perhaps just explain things the way you just did.

doonster

First approach: talk to her about this & explain the problems, she should understand. Most important: point out dangers of over-lapped wheels.

General pointers I've used in 2-somes:

Follow as per group ride - behind the wheel, 1-3 ft gap (less gap for more experience/ better understanding)
Indicate obstructions by pointing in direction of up-coimng obstruction (then follower knows where you're going)
Side-by-side: stronger rider accelerate, weaker fall back. If you're similar ability, outer rider should accelerate for following traffic.

hayneda

Here is are some very basic rules that I recently published in our club newsletter.

Hope it is of use.
Dave



Group Riding

Many people primarily join bike clubs to have other people to ride with. Group rides are an opportunity to enjoy some camaraderie, share the load, and learn new skills or techniques. Unfortunately, many riders face a baptism by fire on their first club rides as far as the expectations, etiquette, and skills needed to safely ride in a group. Group riding is a lot of fun, is faster due to the shared workload of drafting, and is safe if done correctly.

First, realize there is a very real hazard in riding with others that is not present when riding solo. Primarily, the danger is running into another cyclist, usually from behind. Therefore, the first and foremost rule in riding with others is don’t overlap your front wheel with the next person’s rear wheel. If you do overlap them, you should remain at least 3-4 feet to the side. ‘Hooking a wheel,’ as it’s called, results in your bike riding out from under you to one side while you fall to the other. The common result is a broken collarbone. This type of accident often occurs when a following rider, in a second of inattention, drifts too close to the one they are following, or drafting. This can occur very quickly, particularly when the riders at the front slow or dodge something, sending a chain reaction ‘wave’ down the paceline. Until you are very skilled at pacelining, don’t follow too closely.

Whether riding in a paceline or just a loose group of cyclists, it is important to avoid swerving about, or abruptly braking without cause. Thus, the second rule is to hold your line—meaning ride a predictable path on the roadway. Don’t rapidly cut in or out as you might run into those to the sides and just behind you, such as someone that’s passing. When you want to move over, always check behind you first and if someone is close indicate that you intend to move over. If rapid slowing or braking is required, let the ones following know by calling “slowing” or “braking.”

One of the most irritating things in a paceline is a rider that will not maintain a steady pace—slowing down one moment and sprinting ahead the next. This causes all the riders behind to alternate between braking and accelerating in an attempt to keep the paceline together. The result resembles the motion of an accordion. So, the third rule is to maintain a steady pace. Try to keep a constant distance between you and the rider in front of you. When you must slow or accelerate, do so as slowly and smoothly as possible. If a gap opens up, don’t jump out of the saddle to close it but just smoothly apply a bit more power and ease the gap closed. Finally, when it’s your turn at the front, don’t pop the pace up 2 mph as soon as the previous rider comes off. If you want to increase the pace that may or may not be okay (depending on the ride), but if you do so make it smooth and gradual.

The last fundamental rule is stay off your aerobars unless you are either at the front, or the very back. Things can happen fast in a paceline and riding on the aerobars slows your steering and puts your hands too far away from the brake levers. This puts you AND all those behind you at greater risk.

Beyond that, pay attention, pay attention, and pay attention!

TimB

Markedoc,

patience is the first thing you have to learn.
This new riding partner is just as uncertain about you as you are of her. Give it time and things will settle down. But do talk about it to get her perspective.

also put yourself in the rearward riders position. She's uncertain and probabaly a bit scared of travelling so close to someone else at 20odd mph. She also wants to have a view of the road ahead. So simply tell her not to gain an overlap.

Through this communication it could work for both of you if she watches the rear and you watch the front, o instead of you turning your head to view rearward traffic, rely on her judgement.

This takes time to build, it's in effect a relationship that has to be forged. With the relationship comes communication, trust and everything else.

caadman

Markedoc, it sounds and looks like you have an awesome oppturinity here to teach her some very important things about cycling and riding with others...I agree totally with all the responses here that others have said, communication is SUPER KEY, and will take some verbal communication and explaining at first unltill you get comfortable enough with each other that you can communicate thru gestures or non verbal way's, you know what I mean?? I mean if you ride enought times with people you develop this form or understanding of the other people/riders and don't have to verbally tell them so..

Be patient, cause in the long run if she really wants to learn, she will listen and practise things, and that will benifit both of you!!..

Benjamin

Dave Stohler

And, a few other things that you should never do while riding in a paceline:
1: Ride in the drops (except for the lead).
2: Ride on your aerobars (except for the lead).
3: Spit.
4: Fart.
5: Pull a water bottle from it's clamp.

caadman

Dave, how come you say never ride in the drops while in a paceline?? or take a bottle to drink from while riding??? I do both of those things along with the other guys I ride with in pacelines, and we don't crash or cause problems??

I'm confuzed why you mention that??


Benjamin

Markedoc

You guys give some good advice. I should discuss this with her. Since I am no more "experienced" at riuding than she is, I was hoping to be able to point to "something" as a guide.

I think another part of the problem is that riding is more of a social activity for her, whereas I tend to like to get into my own zone and not talk a lot.

caadman

Mark, I just went back and re-read your original post, I should add one more thing off cautionary note..When you're explaining these things to her that you're going to do, make sure not to make it like you're trying to get rid of her on your rides..Explain it but explaine it in a way that she understands that you're not saying, "yo plz go away from me and my ride" cause you don't want to do that, but rather just give some "saftey" reminders so both of you can enjoy the ride and be safe also..

Best of luck,

Benjamin

Kevan

First off, I'd like say hi to y'all. I've been pokin' around this forum from time to time for probably over a year now, but this thread got me thinking it was time to participate. I've been riding seriously for about 10 years now and am old enough to have a 16 year-old kid, no older. Well, ok...maybe a little older. I ride occasionally with Mikemets who I think visits this joint.

Anyway, to the point in this thread. At the amateur level of this sport, which I would classify most recreational club rides as being, where you have 2 or more riders traveling in a pack, at predetermined levels of ability, I don't always trust the fella up front to be protecting my (our) best interests. Further, I'm 6'2" trying to keep myself under 200 lbs. and my mass really kicks in on the descents. So the point I'm trying to make is, I too “sometimes” ride a skooch (3-6”) to the left, but never to the point where I overlap wheels. The idea here is, I can look over the leader's left shoulder to check out the oncoming terrain, the pavement is usually a bit better the further left you go, but there is always the passing traffic to keep you in check. I’m most uncomfortable when I don’t know the roads. The problem with pacelining for us big guys is as soon as we begin going downhill we start gaining on the people ahead of us. Unless we break clear of the slipstream, sit upright, and present ourselves for drag, we (I) might land in the forward guy’s back jersey pocket. Ideally too, no touchy the brakey. Feathering a brake seems to run contrary to the whole reason for speeding along as a group.

Well, enough about me. What do you think about me?

don d.

Nicole Cooke(british cyclist) was in a chase group recently that was strung out in a paceline at high speed. They were riding down a gutter. A motorcycle was parked on their side of the road in the gutter. The lead rider and every other rider except Nicole swung out to avoid the motorcycle. Nicole, on the drops and her mind buried in the rear wheel of the bike in front of her, did a full head on onto the motorcycle. When she came to in the hospital....

It's perfectly ok to ride on the drops in a paceline. Just make sure you're paying attention.

Stiffler

To what does the term drops refer ? Sorry to sound niave but I have just never heard this phrase before....

Tim

spazegun2213

the cicular part of the handle bars. they are drops, i assume because they drop from the upper part of the bar. all your shifing and braking is done best while riding in the drops.

-Ross

KennethToronto

1. BS. It is perfectly fine to ride in the drops. In fact, I find it more comfortable and efficient to be in the drops while riding in a paceline

2. Can't say much about this...most people who ride in our groups don't have aerobars

3. agreed. Nothing more annoying than having someone spray you with their spit. Ugh.

4. Ok...

5. BS

spazegun2213

1. agreed, sometimes i ride in the drops because of the better control, I just keep my eyes on the road

2. everyone around here have aerobars, and yes, they wiz by on them in groups :confused:

3. it helps to move over, closer to the side of the road and then try to be graceful, if you can, else, you dont spit.

4. agreed

5. On my one ride so far i was folloing 2 men doing a century and they both called "DRINK" and grabed their bottles. so i donno about this one.


anyone think we all should come up with "rules" for riding ??

caadman

Ok so it looks like I'm not crazy for thinking that it's ok to ride in the drops and drink from your bidon while riding in a paceline...I didn't think that was bad or wrong, maybe the guy who wrote that originally, hasen't has expierence doing that or something like that....Thanks guy's.


Benjamin

aluckyfiji

so if you are not suppost to drink in the paceline, then where do you drink? do you have to work your way to the back of the paceline and get a drink then if you choice to work your way back up to the front of the group? I understand the concern about a dropped water bottle, but if you are paying attention and have a couple of feet between you and the guy in front, sould you not be ok?

TimB

JMarkedoc, then all the more reason to communicate.
If your riding objectives are different to hers I fear you two are not going to be getting along for too long.
Either restrict your rides with her to when you're interested in long slow social rides for endurance /fat burn and train on your own the rest of the time, or

find out where she wants to take her cycling.

from what you're saying I think your objectives are going to be in conflict.
The nice way to make a subtle switch is too introduce anotehr person to the group with the same objectives as hers so they can ride together and be social while you scoot off down the road onyou intervals.


PS: Theres nothing wrong with riding on the drops in a pace line if youall know and trust each other. In a situation where you're still getting to know others riding styles and habbits, it's a matter of clever self preservation to be precautionary and not ride on the drops.
It's very hard to make subtle corrections to compensate for someones bad riding habits whle you're on the drops as you tend to steer the bike more with your body than your hands. From the hoods you have more control and better forward vision.
Too many people out there with scars to prove how dangerous taking others skill for granted can be.
just my 2p worth

hayneda

Riding in the drops in the paceline is absolutely fine.

As far as drinking in the paceline goes, I never have more than 2 beers whilst group riding. More than that and coordination and reaction time suffers.

Dave

don d.

spazegun2213

Dave

are you here for the AA meeting on bikes too?

Bbmoozer

what are aero bars? same as the drops?

caadman

No they are bars that come strait out from the top of the handlebar and extend forward..You rest your arms on the pads that they have, and they put your hands around a curved either connected or dis-connected portion in the front...Gives you a low and forward positon on the bike...Check out time trial bikes, if you can find some pictures of them, and it'll make more sense for you..

Benjamin

Bbmoozer

Oh yeah! I know those things Benjamin...didn't know what they were called. Nice to have on looonng rides!
Thanks!