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Tubeless tires anyone?

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Tubeless tires anyone?

Old 08-02-07, 08:23 AM
  #26  
damocles1
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Tubeless pros-

Supposedly less rolling resistance(up for debate)
Can ride lower pressures
More comfortable ride (up for debate)
Loose ball bearings
OCP/trick factor is high

Tubeless cons-

Heavier wheels than many standard clinchers
Heavier tires than many standard clinchers
Not a readily serviceable wheel (most shops aren't going to carry spokes if one should break)
Difficulty in mounting tires
Flats require either sealant or installing a tube
Only one tire manufactuer (for now, but many aren't even developing tires)
Not as stiff as some other wheels that are lighter
Expensive for the weight
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Old 08-09-07, 09:31 PM
  #27  
smoothleg
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Just tried a set today, got to take them for a 20+ mile ride, pretty impressed, they are smooth riding, climbed and decended well, are they any faster, hard to tell

I did put the tires on myself, no more difficult than any other cold folded tires, and like all others, once they're warm, they should be easier

Are they the future, hard to tell, there are still STI haters, clincher haters, clipless haters, have to wait and see

I only got to try them because I have connections at a shop I worked at 20 years ago.
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Old 08-16-07, 02:21 PM
  #28  
acroy
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Tubeless rocks.
I've been using a homebrew setup for over 1000miles, zero flats in a nasty area
Road Bike Action tested the Shimano setup and loved it.
Everything else on the road besides bikes has tubeless... wonder why?
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Old 02-15-11, 02:34 AM
  #29  
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I'm pretty new to road riding but from what you're saying weight is the most important thing in a set of wheels, is this right.

I could also run those same wheels and tyres you mention with stans no tubes at the same weight but tubeless and with puncture protection.

Also there must be something in this as a lot of CXers are using tubeless now.

Do you still run tubes in your car tyres too.

Choccy...

Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
You aren't reducing any weight. The wheels are heavier than a normal clincher and the tires are heavier due to the bead that must be placed in them to keep the tire from blowing of the rim. They are only 127 tpi and weigh a claimed 290 grams. Vittoria Open Corsa CX tires are 290 tpi and the new Conti GP4000S is 330 tpi.
A Conti GP4000S weighs 205 grams and a latex tube weighs @ 50 grams. 255 is still lighter than 290. And that's rotational weight!

Lets' examine:
White Industries H1 hubs (32 hole)
Sapim CX-Ray spokes
IRD Cadence hoops
Alloy Nips ============== 1400 grams (observed)
2x Conti GP4000S w/latex tubes=== 510 grams (observed)
Total== 1910 grams

Dura-Ace 7801-SL 1560 grams (claimed)
2x Hutchinson Fusion2 tires 580 grams (claimed)
valve stems 20 grams (claimed)
Total== 2160 grams

250 grams difference = more than half a pound !!!

The rolling resistance theory is still up in the air...likely in your head...

I'm not a luddite by any stretch, but you simply cannot tell me that a heavy, 127tpi tire rides better than a 330tpi tire with a latex tube. The ride quality you're feeling is due to the fact that you have 90 pounds of pressure in the tire versus 120-130 with a regular clincher and the fact that the wheels just aren't all that stiff (yes, I've ridden them!). And if you cut the tire on a ride, you're just as screwed. Flats will require either using that stupid goo sealant or, you guessed it, putting a tube in it.
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Old 02-15-11, 02:44 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
Tubeless pros-

Supposedly less rolling resistance(up for debate)
Can ride lower pressures
More comfortable ride (up for debate)
Loose ball bearings
OCP/trick factor is high

Tubeless cons-

Heavier wheels than many standard clinchers (you can use any wheel, so no weight difference)
Heavier tires than many standard clinchers (you can use any tyre, so no weight difference)
Not a readily serviceable wheel (most shops aren't going to carry spokes if one should break) (use same wheels so no problems with spokes)
Difficulty in mounting tires (same tyres, same problems mounting)
Flats require either sealant or installing a tube (true)
Only one tire manufactuer (for now, but many aren't even developing tires) (all tyres can be used)
Not as stiff as some other wheels that are lighter (same wheels, same stiffness)
Expensive for the weight (same wheels and tyres just the stans kit adds to price, but no tube replacing)
Choccy...
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Old 02-15-11, 06:01 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Choccy View Post
I'm pretty new to road riding but from what you're saying weight is the most important thing in a set of wheels, is this right.

I could also run those same wheels and tyres you mention with stans no tubes at the same weight but tubeless and with puncture protection.

Also there must be something in this as a lot of CXers are using tubeless now.

Do you still run tubes in your car tyres too.

Choccy...
Good point. I'm building a wheelset with a powertap and the Stan's NoTubes ZTR Alpha 340 rim is near the top of my list of options for the rims. Here's a good review of their ZTR Alpha 340 Pro Wheelset: LINK. If i end up going with their rim, I plan on running tires that I usually use on my regular clinchers (4000s and Open Corsa) to get a good feel for the wheels. Then I'd like to try to a pair of Hutchinson Atom Tubeless tires to see what this tubeless business is all about.

Lets Examine:
ZTR Alpha 340 Pro Wheelset (standard, minus the powertap): 1220 grams (observed)
Hutchinson Atom Tubeless x2: 540 (claimed)
Valve Stems: 20 grams (claimed)
And for some puncture resistance and peace of mind, 2 oz. Stan's Tire Sealant x2: 114 grams
Total = 1894

On par with standard lightweight clincher/tire/tube systems.

Last edited by DCnoJ; 02-15-11 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Typo
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Old 02-15-11, 06:43 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Choccy View Post
Choccy...
Um, Choccy-fella.... you do realize that you're arguing with posts from 2007, right?
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Old 02-15-11, 11:24 AM
  #33  
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I started running tubeless over the summer. I bought a Shimano Ultegra 6700 wheelset from Chain Reaction for about $300. I bought Atom tubeless tires. Works great w/ or w/o sealant. I added Stan's sealant along the way just for some extra insurance before some long charity rides. I see no downside to tubeless (assuming you are using a tubeless designed system). It sets up just like a tubed tire just skip the step where you install the tube. You just have more options. For example you can run tubeless tires w/ or w/o sealant or you can run regular tires & tubes all on the same wheelset (you can also run a tubeless tire w/ tubes but tubeless tires weigh more). I just don't see the need for tubes anymore. In my opinion it provides a better ride. All this being said if you have a nice wheelset you like there is nothing earth shattering here that you should dump what you have and go spend more money. If by chance you are in the market for new wheels you should seriously consider a tubeless wheel system. For me I don't plan on ever owning another wheelset unless they are tubeless.
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Old 03-30-11, 01:09 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by MegaTom View Post
you do realize that you're arguing with posts from 2007, right?
That's the best part.

In 2007, this was the future. Now it's the future.

So, how did it all pan out?
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Old 03-30-11, 03:12 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Adgooroo View Post
Ummm...you go first. Tell us all how you like them.

From what I've read, there is only one set of rims currently offered that takes the tubeless tires - Dura Ace. I've read some test results that sounded pretty good, but I have no experience with them.
I have a pair of Ultegra rims that can be run Tubeless , also most Fulcrum and Campagnolo wheels can be run with tubeless tyres(Two Way Fit).
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Old 03-30-11, 03:43 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by damocles1 View Post
An answer to a problem that didn't exist. More marketing from Shimano in an effort their "planned obsolescence" campaign.

They are heavier than regular clinchers, the tires are heavier and only available from one manufacturer (Hutchinson) and they are no more durable...

The marketing says they ride better (questionable) and there's less rolling resistance (questionable)...

Stick with what you have...
I think I have come to the same conclusion. When they first became available for road bikes, I was really excited about them and read a ton of reviews. They ride better, are more flat resistant and have better rolling resistance. In the past few years I haven't seen a huge increase in available product either tires or wheels. I hear that installing them requires an air compressor which isn't in my budget. So, I will wait longer to see if tubeless catch on. I have no issues with my tubed wheels. I think they ride great and can't imagine that tubeless would ride better than my Topolino carbon spoked wheels.
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Old 03-30-11, 03:49 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Carbon Unit View Post
I hear that installing them requires an air compressor which isn't in my budget.
Not true at all, actually. I've installed mine a number of times, and have only used a regular floor pump.
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Old 03-30-11, 04:37 PM
  #38  
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I have about 6-7,000 miles on tubeless, both Hutchinson branded and their specialized version. My last standard clinchers were Pro 3 race.

I am putting DuaraAce tubeless rims on my new Parlee, if that is any indication. I have had 2 flats in all those miles. Throw a tube in and continue your ride (I don't use sealant). The biggest pro for me is the road feel, pretty close to tubular. Part of that feel is how well they corner - I do a lot of fast descending and they corner great.

Maxxis is launching their own road tubeless version shortly, supposedly I am getting an advance set for my new bike .

The only downside is that they are harder to get on initially, but once on they are easy to change on the road if needed.
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Old 03-30-11, 05:32 PM
  #39  
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I think tubeless systems has a future with road cyclists, but that future is not gonna arrive quickly, until better tires and less cumbersome/messy sealing solutions are here.

I for one, is certainly intrigued.
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Old 03-30-11, 05:57 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Jed19 View Post
I think tubeless systems has a future with road cyclists, but that future is not gonna arrive quickly, until better tires and less cumbersome/messy sealing solutions are here.

I for one, is certainly intrigued.
Tires - More choices would be good, but as stated above - I like them better than Pro3's which is saying something. Maxxis is coming out with a new tubeless next month - the Padrone Tubeless.

What cumbersome/messy sealing solutions? Throw it on, add air and ride. If you worry about flats put a touch os Stan's in but generally I don't bother.
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Old 03-30-11, 07:49 PM
  #41  
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I got to take a set of the DA wheels with the Hutchinson tires out for about a week when they first hit the market a few years back. They rode exceptionally well and at far lower psi than I would ride on a standard clincher set up. Weight wise for wheels and tires wasn't all that bad considering if you flat them they stay on the rim better and a standard tube will get you back on the road without having to pull a tubular off and have a pre glued spare strapped to you. Just wish more wheels were available and different manufactures of tires. I am tempted to try some Stans No Tubes wheels. They have a set that is a claimed 1250grams.
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Old 03-30-11, 07:57 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by travkat View Post
I am tempted to try some Stans No Tubes wheels. They have a set that is a claimed 1250grams.
Me too. Price seems reasonable enough.

Velo News had a short review of Stan's Alpha Pro wheelset. If memory serves, I think they liked them OK. However, there was concern about how much they flexed under heavy effort. With me at 185 lbs, I'd probably try the Alpha Team wheels instead of the Pros. But, currently I have two Eurus wheelsets, and one Ksyrium SL ... got enough for now.
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Old 03-30-11, 09:04 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by MrTuner1970 View Post
Me too. Price seems reasonable enough.

Velo News had a short review of Stan's Alpha Pro wheelset. If memory serves, I think they liked them OK. However, there was concern about how much they flexed under heavy effort. With me at 185 lbs, I'd probably try the Alpha Team wheels instead of the Pros. But, currently I have two Eurus wheelsets, and one Ksyrium SL ... got enough for now.
Yeah I am tossing around the idea of the PRO vs Team as I am around 180ish. It isn't a drastic weight penalty in terms of total weight for the set. The only thing I am not too sure of are the American Classic hubs. I have heard mixed reviews about them not lasting all that long.
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