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Newbie Tire Replacement Question...and pump or CO2 ?

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Newbie Tire Replacement Question...and pump or CO2 ?

Old 08-18-07, 06:26 PM
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JoeOxfordCT
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Newbie Tire Replacement Question...and pump or CO2 ?

Hi All,

I am currently running 700x23 Kenda Kontenders which came on my Moto when I bought it a year ago. On today's group ride I had my first flat with them. I had a tough time trying to get the tire back on the rim. So much so that two other riders finally had to help me do it and even they commented on how tough the tire was to get back on the rim. They have a wire bead...Well between that issue and the general wear and tear on the tires themselves, I've decided that it's time to shop for new tires. I know I want to look for a folding tire but other than that I'm not sure what I should be looking for. What are you getting in a $50 tire that you aren't in a $20 tire ?

Part II of this also stems from the my flat today. I have been carrying a Blackburn AirStik with me for some time but today was also my first time using it and frankly I wasn't terribly impressed. It seemed that once the tire got to a certain pressure the pump seemed to leak air with each stroke. Another rider tried to top off my tire with his CO2 unit but the tire was still pretty soft I thought and when I got home and put the tire on my floor pump there was only 50psi in it. No wonder I kept getting gapped...
Apparently these other folks don't think much of the pump either:
http://www.mtbr.com/reviews/Pump/product_79276.shtml

So my next question is this....do I look for another pump or go the CO2 route ? The other riders CO2 unit didn't exactly impress me either..
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Old 08-18-07, 06:30 PM
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#1: Michelin Pro2Race from probikekit.com
#2: Get a CO2. I drilled a hole in the bottom of mine so I can carry a CO2 cartridge upside down.
#3: Carry a presta-schrader adapter. When I'm on the road with a flat the last thing I want is to worry about the damn presta valve.
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Old 08-18-07, 06:44 PM
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Get a different pump that can handle co2 and also allow you to pump by hand. I still use after many years, the Wrench Force PNK (fits in my Pedro's mini saddle bag) which has worked incredibly well. The pump itself can get my mich. pro2's to about 110 and with the co2 about the same. The one I have, I was not able to locate but click below to the link I included and this will put you on the right track.

Wrench Force Pumps
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Old 08-18-07, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by ElJamoquio View Post
#1: Michelin Pro2Race from probikekit.com
#2: Get a CO2. I drilled a hole in the bottom of mine so I can carry a CO2 cartridge upside down.
#3: Carry a presta-schrader adapter. When I'm on the road with a flat the last thing I want is to worry about the damn presta valve.
I don't understand your comment with drilling a hole in your CO2 ?

What is it you like about the Michelins ??
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Old 08-18-07, 06:50 PM
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1. Flat resistant, low rolling resistance, light. A very good combination.

2. Take the CO2 holder, unscrew it, drill hole in bottom, so the nipple of the CO2 cartridge can fit through the bottom.
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Old 08-18-07, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeOxfordCT View Post
I don't understand your comment with drilling a hole in your CO2 ?

What is it you like about the Michelins ??
He drilled a hole in the housing bottom of the co2 inflator so that he could store the co2 cartridge upside down with the threaded portion sticking out the bottom of the inflator. This way he can store the cartridge inside the inflator housing and take up less room in his saddle bag without having to worry that the co2 might leak out if it were threaded into the inflator.
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Old 08-18-07, 07:13 PM
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I use the Microflate CO2 system w/ 16g threaded cartridges. It will inflate my 700x23s to about 120 psi and is very small and light. I carry a small pump just to check for leaks and to set the tube when I first get it in the tire.
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Old 08-18-07, 07:35 PM
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Most C02 "pumps" that are good already have a hole in the bottom for storage/transport of the cartridge until you use it. However, you may want to take a look at this thread for an alternative pump and some ideas about why C02 isn't the greatest...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=332420
I recommend a very good micro pump instead.
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Old 08-18-07, 07:53 PM
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I read the posts in the link you provided....If I understood it correctly full size frame pumps still seem to work the best as far as pumps go....I think I'll try C02 next time out......

Any tire recommendations ??

Originally Posted by prendrefeu View Post
Most C02 "pumps" that are good already have a hole in the bottom for storage/transport of the cartridge until you use it. However, you may want to take a look at this thread for an alternative pump and some ideas about why C02 isn't the greatest...
http://www.bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=332420
I recommend a very good micro pump instead.
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Old 08-18-07, 08:14 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeOxfordCT View Post
Any tire recommendations ??
+1 for the Mich Pro Race 2. I've got about 1700 miles on them, with NO FLATS yet. Oh yeah, I carry CO2. I'll get back to ya when I finally use it
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Old 08-18-07, 08:16 PM
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Everyone has their own prefs for road tyres.... I'll offer mine, even though it appears that ProRace2 (?) by Michelin are quite popular here...

Anyway, I've got two favs, depending on the purpose (these are both clincher type)

-Vredestein Fortezza SE ... I use these for fast club riding, racing, and at times commuting... more durable than your usual race tyre, just as 'grippy' and has a weight that ranks with the 'best' of the rest...

-Continental GatorSkins Ultra ... I use these for training, and they get the most use for commuting... very durable tyres!! Tough. Strong. Grippy. A bit heavy compared to racing tires, so I use them for training - but they roll very, very nicely on even the most fractured of urban roads.

Good luck!
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Old 08-18-07, 08:20 PM
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If you decide to get another pump, I recommend the excellent Topeak Road Morph.
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Old 08-19-07, 12:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Pendergast View Post
If you decide to get another pump, I recommend the excellent Topeak Road Morph.
+1

I've got 2 and am thinking of getting a 3rd one for my 3rd bike...
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Old 08-19-07, 03:44 AM
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Originally Posted by prendrefeu View Post
Everyone has their own prefs for road tyres.... I'll offer mine, even though it appears that ProRace2 (?) by Michelin are quite popular here...

Anyway, I've got two favs, depending on the purpose (these are both clincher type)

-Vredestein Fortezza SE ... I use these for fast club riding, racing, and at times commuting... more durable than your usual race tyre, just as 'grippy' and has a weight that ranks with the 'best' of the rest...


Good luck!

Have these on the New bike and Fine- Except they do not have as much grip as the Michelins- Too easy to lock the back wheel and I have doubts about the wear life. Flat on The rear tread is pronounced and the front is Going too- After only 500 miles or so. They are light though.

The Pro Race 2's haven't even lost the mould marks on the front after 1700 miles.
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Old 08-19-07, 04:06 AM
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I carry CO2 as well. As for tires, and there probably will be opinions against these, but I ride Performance's Pro Forte Kevlar. A folding tire, 216 grams for 700 x 23, wears well, and generally can be bought on sale for around $25 plus shipping if there isn't a Performance store near you.
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Old 08-19-07, 04:30 AM
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You want Conti GP4000 tires.

For the last 3 months, I've had a ProRace 2 on the front and a GP4000 on the back of my racing bike. In that time I've had 5 flats on the ProRace 2 and only 1 on the GP4000.

I will never buy Michelin tires again.
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Old 08-19-07, 04:30 AM
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I just emailed Topeak and they sent me a few frame mounts free of charge--- so I can use the same pump on multiple bikes. I love that company... and the product. It is the easiest to inflate, and it works great for travel, since it has a gauge.

Originally Posted by Psydotek View Post
+1

I've got 2 and am thinking of getting a 3rd one for my 3rd bike...
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Old 08-19-07, 05:09 AM
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Getting or not getting a flat, other than watching out for obvious hazards, is mainly luck of the draw. The tire itself doesn't really have that much to do with it, unless it's a more flat-resistant kevlar-belted tire (which usually aren't the first choice of people whose only purpose is to go fast and keep up with a group). Sometimes, with the same tire, you can go whole season without a flat, and then you can get two on the same ride. Unless they come up with some super new space age material, more flat resistance is going to mean more material and more weight, probably more rolling resistance, and less of that hard to quantify road feel. As far as flat resistance, there is very little difference between one tire and another, unless one is kevlar-belted and the other one isn't.

It's a fact of life that many, if not most tires make it hard to get that last bit onto the rim. Sometimes some patience and some brute force are required, but you work it little by little, and it eventually goes over. Technique helps, where you push the other side of the tire in closer to the side you are forcing on, while you work the tire in little by little (and also get the opposite end of the tire that's already in to be into the valley in the middle of the rim so you get more length to work with). But, it's usually going to take a bit of effort.

I used to waste money on expensive tires. Now I just get tires with a nice round profile and very little in the way of thread, and I buy cheap ones (although I do stick to some brand names I like). You know what? I find it makes little difference in performance or feel. A cheap Michelin Dynamic performs just as well as a more expensive one. The only difference is it's a bit heavier than the expensive tire, but then, I compensate by peeing before I leave home, or just bringing my driver's licence along instead of my whole wallet :-)

Nothing is more maddening than spending a fortune on an expensive tire and then getting a cut in it. This happens a lot if you ride in urban areas.

As a newbie, I'm not sure you would find a folding tire to be any easier. Those can be hard to mount properly and evenly. Probably not the best choice for a newbie who had trouble with his first flat experience.

Pumps? Well, first of all, don't get your pump advice or reviews from a mountain biker forum. Their situation is totally difference. They want volume, roadies want high pressure. Calls for totally different pump characteristics.

Was that minipump really losing air, of was that just how the two-way pumping mechanism works? Now, I don't have a current Blackburn Airstik. I bought mine 10 years ago, and I just fixed a flat last week using it. It still works fine. I use a road bike minipump because my frame is small, and there's no way to carry 2 bottles and a full-sized frame pump. But my choice, other than that, would always be a full size frame pump (Zefal HPX). There's just no substitute for that. A minipump, even if it can reach higher pressures, is going to take an awful lot of strokes to get there. But if you must use a CO2 inflator, then carry a minipump. Why? Because sometimes you need to put a bit of air in a tube during the flat fixing process, and a CO2 inflator doesn't do that very well.

If you don't want flats, get a belted tire and hope for the best. And be self-sufficient. Carry a full-sized frame pump if your bike can handle it, and even if you carry CO2, also carry a good road minipump for insurance (unless you are always riding where you can easily get home anyway if you had to walk or get a car ride).
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Old 08-19-07, 05:44 AM
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Is there any difference between the Michelin ProRace2 & the Michelin Pro2Race ???

Prorace 2: http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1056

Pro2Race: http://www.pistaparts.com/ProductDet...tCode=pro2race

PBK has the best price and will usually ship to the US for free....
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Old 08-19-07, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Longfemur View Post
I used to waste money on expensive tires. Now I just get tires with a nice round profile and very little in the way of thread, and I buy cheap ones (although I do stick to some brand names I like). You know what? I find it makes little difference in performance or feel. A cheap Michelin Dynamic performs just as well as a more expensive one. The only difference is it's a bit heavier than the expensive tire, but then, I compensate by peeing before I leave home, or just bringing my driver's licence along instead of my whole wallet :-)
Umm, no. For one thing, the more expensive tires consist of composites that have better grip and rolling resistance characteristics, which give you better cornering and road feel.

As for weight, well, weight in the tire is perhaps the most important of any weight on the bike, as it's carried at the outermost edge of the wheels, and carries a high rotational inertia effect. As such, the difference between a cheap 300g tire and an expensive 200g tire is more than simply taking a 100g dump before your ride.
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Old 08-19-07, 06:00 AM
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Tire recommendation:
Michelin ProRace2 or Krylion Carbon.
PR2 has slightly better rolling resistance, Krylion has slightly better puncture resistance. I use Krylion as I dont race, but most racers prefer PR2 and I will agree with them (not thru experience, but thru a lot of research before choosing Michelin).

You can also go for Continental GP4000S (make sure it's 'S'), some people prefer these, others prfer PR2. I've become a Mchelin man myself.

CO2 recommendation: sorry, no experience with these. But I guess dont bother letting the 'living car free' dudes find out you're pumping yet more CO2 into the atmosphere

Ps: air pumps: the only thinkg I can say is stay away from Pocket Rocket. It's small and compact but doesn't inflate too well (and takes ages to do so). I still keep it as it's my 'get me home' pump. I will replace it when I'm ready to do longer rides. I'm not sure if you asked about floor pumps, but check out Joe Blow floor standing - I think it's made by Topeak.

Last edited by mustang1; 08-19-07 at 06:03 AM. Reason: Additional info given
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Old 08-19-07, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeOxfordCT View Post
Is there any difference between the Michelin ProRace2 & the Michelin Pro2Race ???

Prorace 2: http://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1056

Pro2Race: http://www.pistaparts.com/ProductDet...tCode=pro2race

PBK has the best price and will usually ship to the US for free....
No. They're the same. Michelin makes it confusing as to what to call them.
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Old 08-19-07, 04:42 PM
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Ok...seems as far as the tires go it's mostly votes for Michelins ProRace2's with the Continental GP4000's running a somewhat distant second....
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Old 08-19-07, 05:00 PM
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If you buy the michelins, you will regret it, seriously. GP4000 is the way to go.
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Old 08-20-07, 01:57 AM
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Well I'm going to call my LBS today and see what he has in stock because I'm afraid to run my back tire that way that it is much longer....I have a bare spot in one section where I must have locked up the brakes and I can see threads....I have a group ride tomorrow night and I'd like to be sportin' new tires by then if at all possible....I'm just hoping he won't be double what I'd pay on the internet...

Originally Posted by elgalad View Post
If you buy the michelins, you will regret it, seriously. GP4000 is the way to go.
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