banerjek

If you're going downhill at higher speeds, what is the best way to deal with faster riders?

I take fewer risks on descents than many other riders. Steep roads are frequently narrow, curvy, and have debris and holes on them. Side winds can also be a destabilizing factor. Seems like most of the organized rides I participate in that involve dangerous descents wind up sending someone to the hospital. I don't want to be one of those people.

Even at high speeds, I watch my mirror and try to move over. I really don't like being close to anyone since a tiny mistake or problem can take everyone out fast. My normal procedure is to go right as far as I think is safe, and slow down so I don't have someone next to me for a long time. I try to signal with my left hand when I want to be passed, but these are situations where both hands need to stay on the bars.

I don't want to be in the way. Some guys who are overtaking me may be racing.

If you are descending fast and need to overtake someone, what do you want/expect them to do, particularly if you're on curves and the road surface isn't great?

pseudobrit

Be predictable. That's all I ask.

johnny99

If you're riding slowly and expecting people to pass, then stay to the right (about 2-3 feet from the right side of the road) and do not weave back and forth across the lane. If there is some kind of obstacle in the road that forces you to turn outward, look back before first so you do not cut someone off.

666

Problem #1 is anyone who shows up to a group ride wearing a mirror. I'd avoid any ride with such people to begin with.

Frankly, the problem is pretty clear from the above description. You are what is commonly referred to in the cycling world as a "velopus*y". You're so afraid of dying that you don't live. Everything in life worth doing is risky. Get over it.

The solution to your problem is simple. LOOSEN UP. Toss the mirror. Get drunk and get into a bar fight. Watch Fight Club. Crash and get flown to the hospital; it's not so bad.

If you want to keep up with fast descenders then you need to pull the stick out of your arse because they don't have them. In short, harden the F up.

That is all.

WheresWaldo

666, that was a little harsh, maybe you have spent too much time in the big bulge thread, or with Ann Coulter.

banerjek

I'm not sure people are imagining the scenario I'm trying to describe. I'm talking getting passed when you're going 40mph+ down a steep grade where the curves, road surface, your equipment, and handling skills are holding you back (i.e. not an easy ride down a hill.). Also, it's not like I get passed *that* often -- I'm trying to figure out how to handle it because it's a dangerous situation.

3 feet is about as close as I can get to the edge in many situations. There are potholes, cracks, rocks or other debris, and the surface is often uneven so you need room to manuever. The slightly greater quantity of dirt and fine debris towards the edges takes away your grip, plus entering curves at nonoptimal angles makes them harder to navigate.

It's not just a matter of going faster. I've found that choice of tires and pressures make quite a difference on these descents. Not surprisingly, the tires that give the most grip also wear out the fastest and are the most susceptible to flats. For financial and convenience reasons, I normally run harder tires with less grip. Plus, some people are just better at descents.

My front teeth were knocked out in crash years ago and I have some other permanent marks from falls, but I'm still willing to top 50mph if conditions allow. My basic theory is that you can make up lots of time climbing up a mountain, but very little coming down, so it's not worth taking crazy risks (particularly near dropoffs). I've seen a number of really bad crashes, and I'd like to keep riding since I need my body to function properly to commute to work and putter about the house. My cycling goal is to still think climbing 15K feet in one day is a great idea at age 60.

I do not understand the widespread aversion to mirrors. The only place they really don't help is if you're riding very close to others or on roads that are basically empty. On a steep grade going up which is where the bulk of a climbing ride is spent, this is typically not the case. I hear people constantly whining about how they were surprised by another rider, a vehicle, or whatever. With a mirror, this simply doesn't happen. If you're going fast downhill, you can't hear anything so knowing someone's coming up is pretty useful. Looking backwards when you're descending a curvy, narrow road with a crummy surface seems insane since a single piece of gravel can easily take you out. With a mirror you can watch both ways. But then again, I'm a fred, so part of me is beyond hope.

Based on this thread, it sounds like my basic strategy of pulling over and slowing down won't surprise people, so I can keep doing that.

SSP

If we see each other on a downhill sometime, I'll give a little wave as the view of you recedes in my Take a Look mirror.

I've done 5 week-long tours in Colorado, crossing the Continental Divide 10 times, and riding at elevations up to 14,000 feet. I ride with a bunch of strong mountain goats who live in Gunnison and Creste Butte (elevation 9000 feet). They can beat me to the top of most passes, but they get kind of frustrated because none of them can keep up with me on the downhills (they call me Il Falco - "the Falcon").

The mirror doesn't seem to slow me down on the downhills (and several other members of the group have started using them). In fact, in 5 trips to Colorado, the only guy who was able to keep up with me on a downhill was wearing rainbow stripes on his jersey (he'd earned them at the mountain bike world championships the year before, and complimented me on my downhill skills).

So, don't judge the rider by the equipment.


With respect to the OP - If you know you're going slow and/or about to get passed, just hold your line and try to stay right. Of course, if you're coming up to a tight switchback and you need to move laterally on the road to safely negotiate your turn...do so. The lead bike has the right of way, and the responsibility for a safe pass is with the passer.

666

Sorry. My therapist has me working on expressing my feelings.

Fixitman

OMG I can not have a mirror or any other safety equipment. I am a roadie for crying out loud! What would that do to my image? This has always dumfounded me. If your racing yes I can understand no lights etc. However if you are riding on the road you are in my opinion insane not to be able to see and be seen. Man up and carry the little bit of extra weight



Randy

666

So, you are a Fred who happens to go fast down the hills. Congratulations. By the time you get to the top I'll be at the bottom anyway.

Hammertoe

Sometimes people need to realize it is not safe to pass...

40+ mph on narrow roads with debris and a poor surface may qualify...

Is it a race...

Hold your line, be predicable, and put some spikes on your hubs Ben Hur style...

That'll teach them...

Dubbayoo

On downhills I would worry about yourself. If you need your mirror to see them let them worry about themselves. They're clearly behind and have a better view of you than you do of them.

SSP

Only if you're in the sag wagon. Living in the mountains of northern California, I get a lot more training in the big mountains than you do in the flatlands of DC.

FWIW, when I participate in big climbing events (e.g., the Death Ride) my pass to passed ratio is typically about 9:1.

But, hey, it's easy to sound like a stud (or a jerk) on the internet...I'll bet you really smoke 'em on the MUP's in DC when you dial it up to 400 watts.

banerjek

Usually not, but I've found that some people like to push their limits all the time. I tend prefer most of my experiments with my limits to be with my legs and endurance rather than my luck, but to each his own.

However, there are rides that place racers and nonracers on the road at the same time.

nitropowered

Its like skiing, the person in front of you has the right of way. I'm not going to look behind me when bombing a hill at 50+. Its up to the person behind you to overtake you carefully.

Didn't Simoni lose his lead in stage to Salvodeli because Salvodeli could descend better?

SSP

Yes...Il Falco won the Gyro that year, because he was such a good descender.

waterrockets 

They give these away instead of having a Descent Leader's Jersey:

rizz

I find that taking descents at speed is mostly about confidence. Once you learn how to take corners correctly (apex corners, slow in and fast out) and the basics of going fast downhill (off the saddle, pedals level, etc.), it all becomes about the desire and courage to just charge ahead at full steam without using the brakes as much as the next guy. If you do feel the need to lightly ride the brakes, consider sitting up instead. It's easier for those rapidly approaching from behind to know you aren't trying to zip down as fast as possible.

In addition to the tips already given about riding to the right and holding a straight line, it'd also be nice if those with mirrors could focus on going down the hill at their highest comfortable pace instead of eyeballing those behind them in a less-than-optimal viewing situation. The slower you are relative to those on that same section of road, the less time they have to react to you, especially after corners or on the early descent just beyond a peak.

slvoid

Why does that food item have fine print that says "there are no user servicable parts inside"?

cyclezen

given that you make proper decisions on your line, take it.
Your objective is to assure your best opportunity for the safest line.
Your only concern should be riders you are overtaking.
Riders overtaking you should adjust for you, not you for them.
Never alter your intended line unless the altered line in your consideration is as good or offers plenty of margin for a good exit.

Given all that, if you are in a group and you expect to be passed

Keep your line predictable.
Offering enough space on either side, at a turn apex, for others to use is a considerate approach.
On a straight down descent staying right is also considerate as long as you have enough space to react to road condition issues.
You are under no obligations to put yourself in jeopardy or beyond your skills so someone else can pass you.
However, if you get spooked by riders who pass close, then you'll need to weigh your lines with your ability and disposition to stay focused and relaxed in group descents. If you get spooked easily, then slow it down and offer the optimum line to others.
Developing strong peripheral vision and less focused stare gives you more warning on approaching riders and also increases comfort factor.
Steady and good descender in front of you? follow them and their lines.

rooftest

I'm confused - First you said you go slow on downhills, then you said you go fast...

Just ride predictably, and anyone who wants to pass you, will. I think you worrying about someone passing you takes your attention off the road ahead, making a crash more likely.

I usually do all the passing downhill - if there's room, I'll swing out and do it. (I need to create a gap ahead of time for the climbs.)

tinrobot

Mirrors. That's your problem right there.

When you're going downhill, look down the hill.

xg43x

pull your balls out of your saddle bag and ride! i ride a fixed gear and charge down hills at a cadence of 150-170, i cant worry about my legs giving up on me or i am dead. you can coast, so get down the hill as fast as possible. oh yeah, lose the safety equipment.

banerjek

What I meant was on fast descents, I sometimes encounter other people who are faster. Relative to them, that makes me slow. Typically, they're going a couple mph faster than me, so it's not like they're going to run over me.

If surfaces are good and there is plenty of space, it's no biggie, but most steep roads are narrow and don't have very good surfaces but they do have plenty of turns. I do try to learn from people who pass. I normally try to shadow about 50 yds back (sometimes I can, sometimes I can't) -- just having someone in front of you allows you to go faster since you have someone to help you locate road hazards and determine the best way to react to changing conditions.

However, it makes me nervous to ride with someone near my side when going though turns because it's harder to maintain a precise course. This is partly a function of my own handling skills, it's partly an experience thing, and it's partly personal preference.
I have yet to see a fixie on some of these hills I'm talking about. Come to think about it, I've never been passed by a fixie anywhere except when I was riding a touring bike with panniers up Larch Mountain.

EDIT: I'm not pretending to be stronger than all the fixie riders. However, fixies seem to be an urban thing, so I practically never encounter them. Heck, I'd probably get one (or SS) if I lived in Portland or SF.

jrennie

yeah I'm sure DC has some monster mountains.


banerjek- I'm sorry for some of the responses as I really appreciate the fact that you would like to know how to remain in your comfort zone while not hindering anyone else’s riding experience or pace. If some one is just being a jerk(*666*) then anything you do will still be unsatisfactory but When you say that you move to the right, acknowledge them and let them by that is all that is necessary. It still remains the responsibility of the faster rider in the rear to only pass when it is safe for both parties just like a car.