Totoro

Absolutely.

Here is what I learned:

The spec sheet published by bike companies on the internet may not be accurate
I was wrong to assume the LBS was at fault, but I was right to not name the store.
I should take the information with me to the store when I am shopping and ask more questions.

Somehow, I still don't feel good about the whole experience.

So this is a common practice then? The law states that any material changes to a product that may influence the decision of the buyer must be disclosed. Clearly in this case it wasn't, regardless of whether it was the retailer or the manufacturer.

fly:yes/land:no

this seems about right.

to the op, it is a 2005 model, right? my guess is the guy at the shop didn't even realize that it wasn't stock since it was probably assembled 2 years ago. just a thought.

Little Darwin

Felt "ran out of parts" is probably a half truth... but a reality at some level.

The US dollar is falling in value, and Felt can no longer afford to use the same parts and import the bike unless they raise the price... Either way, you paid about the same for the same bike as anyone else would today... if you would have bought 6 months ago you would have gotten slightly better wheels... If you wait 6 more months, you would either get slightly lower end components, or pay more.

hos13

Get out and ride, you will feel better. You have a good bike.

Totoro

You are probably right.

Totoro

Good advice. I think I am just going to put this whole experience behind me. On the positive side, I was able to get out my frustration on this forum before I talked to Felt and the LBS. So when I did talk to them, I was more calm and polite than I might have been. Thanks for listening to my stupid rant.

merlinextraligh

Well it would appear they were disclosed. The crankset and the wheels were in plain sight. Nothing was hidden from you. Presumably you had the opportunity to look at the bike. And your saavy enoough to know the difference in the componets or you wouldn't be upset.

Also you got an $800 discount, which presumably in part factored in the "downgrade" in componets.

If I had bought this bike on line I would be upset. However buying it in the store and seeing exactly what I was agreeing to buy, I don't a whole to carp about.

Bontrager

Why couldn't have the LBS said to him on delivery "we know you think you're paying for better parts but the factory substituted cheaper parts but we're still going to charge you the same".


Do you people look over a car with a magnifying glass when you pick it up from the dealer? Do you take a hammer to your drywall to make sure it's 3/8" and not 1/4" when the contractor builds your house?

Why is it so difficult to understand that someone gets pissed off when they think they're paying for something ends up gets something of a lesser value without the experts selling them the item mentioning even 1 word of it because there's a little * on the mfr's website?

merlinextraligh

No, but when I buy a car I notice what wheel package it comes with. And wheels on a bike standout at least as much if not more than wheels on a car.

If I negotiated a price on a particular car at a Dealer, and the car had 17" rims. I wouldn't ***** if I later learned that most of that particular model came with 18" rims, provided that I got the wheels that were on the car when I agreed to buy it.

Totoro

I understand what you are saying, but you are also assuming that the buyer understands the difference in value with the substituted parts. If you are an expert you would know the difference. For some reason though, I feel less upset that it was the company and not the LBS that made the swap, probably because I put my trust in the person who sold it to me and now I can transfer those negative feelings to some anonymous company in a far off place. Still, it doesn't make it right.

ZeroPt99

So, knowing that you got an $800 discount, is it worth it to you to ebay the Dura Ace crank and the Velomax wheels so that your discount is considerably less, or are you happy with the crank and wheels you currently have?

Coyote2

Why would he have thought he was getting "better parts" when the bike was presented to him as-is, with the Truvativ cranks and Ksyrium wheels? They did not switch the parts on him. You are completely ignoring the fact that the parts were not switched - he looked at bike, bought bike, then complained about bike.

And yeah, when I buy a new car you better believe that I look it over before taking delivery. I do the same thing when buying a house - it's called a "final walk through." And I would do it before paying for a bike. But I would not buy the car and THEN complain about the wheels.

GeoLes

I had a similar experience when I purhased my first and only CF bike. I got it online because I could never afford one at store prices. (I got the whole thing CF with Shimano 105 components,Mavic Cosmos wheels for less than $1000 from Supergo back in 2001. It came as ordered except that there was some damage in shipping. The rear wheel was dented, so I bounced the wheel back for a replacement, supposedly at no charge. They immediately sent me a replacement wheel. Upon receipt, Iwas to ship back the dented one. When the wheel arrived, It was not the same wheel. The origianl Cosmos wheel has sealed bearings. The replacement was a Mavic CPX 21 with Shimano Tiagra hub; not even close in quality. The results of my inquiry revealed that they no longer stocked the Cosmos wheel. I opted to keep both wheels, (paying for the second wheel at a discounted price) and having my lbs rebuild the rear with a new Cosmos rim. I was also lucky enough the find a mate for the CPX 21 backup,except with Ultegra hub. Now I have a set of working wheels and a set of event wheels.

The downside of online shopping is there is no guarantee the what you want is in stock. Also you should watch that the substitue is of similar value. If not, make some noise.

bvfrompc

The wierd part about this, I have bought some year end bikes, even one from Felt. I guess Felt ran out of 105 FD's, so the bike I got was Ultegra instead. *******s put on an upgrade without even telling me before I bought it.

I serioulsy doubt that Felt would downspec to this level, maybe a little different but not this serious of a downspec. Especially on the F35 which was one of their higher end ready-to-race bikes. I am guessing the shop did this, not to screw you, just over the course of two years swapping out stuff.

sfrider 

Depends on the state.
In California, it's BPC 17500:

It's a long tedious section with lots of examples that I cut out. (Full version: https://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=17500-17509 )

Basically, the dealer verified when he asked that it's a stock bike, which is a fact they reasonably should have been aware was incorrect (and trivially could have checked), and sold him something different. Classic bait-and-switch. And yes, it's illegal here. Don't know about other states.

Duke of Kent

Actually, as the OP has already stated, the bike was in fact STOCK from FELT. They changed the spec list mid year, which is actually fairly common practice.

gcl8a

Whew! Another crisis averted by the bikeforums masses with logical thinking and rational discourse...

roadwarrior

Exactly...but I haven't laughed so much in a very long time. It's been amusing, to say the least. I need to keep reading to find out "Who dun it..."

roadwarrior

Exactly...Trek (this was all discussed in another thread) does this frequently. In the Pilot series, we had three of the same bikes, all three had different component setups (but when they "swapped" they always went upward...a bike specd with 105 might show up with an Ultegra derailleur, for example). But Trek charged us the same for all three, and the component differences were not appreciable (mixing Bontrager and Shimano) to result in price differences by us.
Every company that I know of clearly says that they can change the specs if they want to. Sometimes it's because they bike that they specd is not selling well to dealers, so they switch to make it more attractive.

From my end, we don't ever switch components to change a bike price to sell it. We just discount the bike as is. We will, however, cripple a bike to get parts if we need to in a pinch, but we always order the same part to replace the one we borrowed.

If a shop swaps out components and replaces them with lesser stuff to sell a bike (personally I doubt that's the case) it must be a really small shop.

rdk

OP reads about bike on net
OP get specs from Felt website
OP reads reviews of bike and of all the different parts
OP gets told by LBS that bike is "stock"
OP buys bike that has lesser parts than he read about and was expecting
OP is p1ssed off

Sounds resonable to me. 99% of the population would not be aware that specs change throughout the year, and 99% of the population would not check purchased bike against written and publicised specs. Lots of posters have said it's "common" - 5% of bike models, 10%, 20%? What does common mean?

If the specs change, the retail price should change, not through some fake negotiating a discount. And if the specs change during the year for some legitimate reason, the specs listed on the website should change as well. After all, its a 10 second job to change one line on a website, and if Felt did need to change the bike they should make the change on the website.

maddyfish

Did you not look at the bike beofer you bought it? Did you buy it over the phone?

This IS the reason not to buy over the internet. A reasonably intelligent person will actually LOOK at the bike they are about to buy, and know what parts it has on it. And know if those parts are acceptable to them or not.

Bontrager

So basically most of the people advocating the LBS don't trust their own LBS but advocate doing business with them. Unbelievable.

Merlin - The drywall's already up and painted/wallpapered on final walkthrough. No way for you to know what went into building your house unless you were like me and went every weekend and took tons of pictures of the progress

Coyote - Do you pop the hood? Do you multiply the bore x stroke to make sure they gave you the correct size cc engine as advertised?

It's common practice in some places to do a lot of unethical things. Doesn't make it right. Getting anything less than what you paid for is taking advantage of an uneducated consumer. Send your wife to buy a car much?

operator

Naming shops after jumping to conclusions? Everyone wants to do that nowadays. It's hyper popular!

operator

Yeah, like waste our time swapping out parts for cheaper parts on every bike hoping a customer won't notice. And when they do spend the labour to put it back on.

Then have people like you come in and assume, nay say as fact that it's "common practice" to do this. Would a bike shop do this? Wouldn't surprise me. But to imply that everyone does this or that it's common, is insulting.

Especially to those who run an honest shop. Unless you have proof that a bikeshop is purposely and maliciously ripping people off this way - you should shut your pie hole.

rufvelo

Nope, we all take apart that 4.2 liter v8 in the garage, preferably at the dealership itself - before we blindly put our faith in someone's connecting rods these days. In fact most manufacturers recommends a complete disassembly of the automobile and verification against a parts list. (dealers always give me that look when I show up with a hoist)