Ragbrai banned from Iowa County thanks to cyclist's family
10-11-07, 10:56 PM
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Ragbrai banned from Iowa County thanks to cyclist's family
I predicted this when the lawsuit was first filed, and now it's happened. Ragbrai is banned because a county no longer wants to be held liable for cyclists' injuries or death after a cyclist who died on the route sued the county for a crack in the road that led to a cyclist death. Torques me off immensely.
https://www.siouxcityjournal.com/arti...710063ccaa.txt
https://www.siouxcityjournal.com/arti...710063ccaa.txt
DENISON, Iowa (AP) -- Crawford County has banned an annual bike ride across Iowa from using its roads.
County supervisors passed a resolution that says the Register's Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa, or RAGBRAI, would no longer be allowed to use roads in the county.
The decision follows a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the family of a man who died after he lost control of his bike on a county road during RAGBRAI 2004.
The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash.
Ullrich's family filed the lawsuit claiming Crawford County was negligent in its maintenance of the road.
The county did not admit negligence in settling the lawsuit but decided to not let RAGBRAI use its roads in the future.
"RAGBRAI at this point would not be welcomed in this county because of the lawsuit factors," said Dan Muhlbauer, chairman of the board of supervisors. "As long as the laws read the way they do, I don't want them in my county. I would be 100 percent against RAGBRAI coming through Crawford County.
"Have the fun, but if something goes wrong, don't sue the county because our roads are not made for bicycles," Muhlbauer said. "I don't know if any county would want them. If something goes wrong we're liable."
He said he hopes the state will pass laws to protect counties from such liabilities.
The county's insurance will pay the settlement.
The resolution, approved Tuesday, states that the county's roads are not designed to meet the specific standards related to bicycle travel and constitute an unacceptable risk to participants in RAGBRAI and other similar events.
County officials notified RAGBRAI officials of their decision in a letter following the board's action.
T.J. Juskiewicz, RAGBRAI director, said no other local or county governments have banned the event.
"We will not go to a place where they don't want the event," Juskiewicz said. "Most places want RAGBRAI."
County supervisors passed a resolution that says the Register's Annual Great Bike Ride Across Iowa, or RAGBRAI, would no longer be allowed to use roads in the county.
The decision follows a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the family of a man who died after he lost control of his bike on a county road during RAGBRAI 2004.
The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash.
Ullrich's family filed the lawsuit claiming Crawford County was negligent in its maintenance of the road.
The county did not admit negligence in settling the lawsuit but decided to not let RAGBRAI use its roads in the future.
"RAGBRAI at this point would not be welcomed in this county because of the lawsuit factors," said Dan Muhlbauer, chairman of the board of supervisors. "As long as the laws read the way they do, I don't want them in my county. I would be 100 percent against RAGBRAI coming through Crawford County.
"Have the fun, but if something goes wrong, don't sue the county because our roads are not made for bicycles," Muhlbauer said. "I don't know if any county would want them. If something goes wrong we're liable."
He said he hopes the state will pass laws to protect counties from such liabilities.
The county's insurance will pay the settlement.
The resolution, approved Tuesday, states that the county's roads are not designed to meet the specific standards related to bicycle travel and constitute an unacceptable risk to participants in RAGBRAI and other similar events.
County officials notified RAGBRAI officials of their decision in a letter following the board's action.
T.J. Juskiewicz, RAGBRAI director, said no other local or county governments have banned the event.
"We will not go to a place where they don't want the event," Juskiewicz said. "Most places want RAGBRAI."
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10-11-07, 11:00 PM
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the root of the problem: "our roads were not made for bicycles."
10-11-07, 11:15 PM
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"We will not go to a place where they don't want the event," Juskiewicz said. "Most places want RAGBRAI."
Well, maybe not after word of this court's ruling gets out.
"RAGBRAI at this point would not be welcomed in this county because of the lawsuit factors," said Dan Muhlbauer, chairman of the board of supervisors. "As long as the laws read the way they do, I don't want them in my county. I would be 100 percent against RAGBRAI coming through Crawford County.
There are other kinds of lawsuits for this sort of thing.
Well, maybe not after word of this court's ruling gets out.
"RAGBRAI at this point would not be welcomed in this county because of the lawsuit factors," said Dan Muhlbauer, chairman of the board of supervisors. "As long as the laws read the way they do, I don't want them in my county. I would be 100 percent against RAGBRAI coming through Crawford County.
There are other kinds of lawsuits for this sort of thing.
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10-11-07, 11:17 PM
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The root of the problem is that paved roads will always have cracks, potholes, debris, traffic, etc. Cyclists have to learn how to watch for and avoid these things. Unfortunately, on a big group ride, sometimes people ride to close to each other to get a good view of the road. I do not know exactly what happened in this particular accident, but I hope that the organizers and participants can study and learn for this incident and improve safety in future years.
10-11-07, 11:28 PM
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10-12-07, 12:24 AM
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if there is a gap wide enough to swallow a bicycle wheel in the road, then it needs to be fixed, i don't care what vehicle the road was made for but large cracks in the road only show negligence by the county and the county therefore should be held liable. And i highly doubt states will pass laws preventing further such lawsuits. Otherwise we might as well just forget about roads.
10-12-07, 12:51 AM
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Disclaimer?
In New Zealand we have to sign a form before any event. Basically saying that the organisers are not liable for any accidents.
Surely the County could put a similar clause in the entry form?
That's one of the hazards of cycling, people crash and get hurt.
Surely the County could put a similar clause in the entry form?
That's one of the hazards of cycling, people crash and get hurt.
10-12-07, 01:00 AM
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The ride has roughly 10,000 participants and crosses through 15 to 20 counties and probably 50 different cities. Doubtful you could sign enough waivers to indemnify each jurisdiction and even then, you know that wouldn't stop someone from suing.
if there is a gap wide enough to swallow a bicycle wheel in the road, then it needs to be fixed, i don't care what vehicle the road was made for but large cracks in the road only show negligence by the county and the county therefore should be held liable. And i highly doubt states will pass laws preventing further such lawsuits. Otherwise we might as well just forget about roads.
There's no way to keep every tire snagging crack filled out there. The filler can pop out, a new crack can open at anytime, and there are not enough employees to monitor every square inch of pavement on a daily, weekly, nor monthly basis. That, and one shouldn't be riding on the center line anyway. We're talking a county with 700 square miles and just 16,000 residents.
10-12-07, 01:04 AM
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Americans are lawsuit happy. Article did not show the actual lawsuit site. All organized rides I have participated, read we are responsbile for our own actions. Other than awful, wonder how the other riders felt about the road conditions and this all happened. You'd think some of the riders would have been called in to testify.
10-12-07, 01:36 AM
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The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash.
Ullrich's family filed the lawsuit claiming Crawford County was negligent in its maintenance of the road.
Ullrich's family filed the lawsuit claiming Crawford County was negligent in its maintenance of the road.
Maybe his relatives were angry at cycling both for taking his life and for taking his time away from them while he was alive?
10-12-07, 03:09 AM
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the root of the problem: American litigation culture. vexatious litigants ruining life for all, to the delight of claims lawyers everywhere (who really are the only beneficiaries)
oh, and root of the litigant culture: "I refuse to take responsibility for my own actions. I am a soft blind parasite looking for a host to leech off."
oh, and root of the litigant culture: "I refuse to take responsibility for my own actions. I am a soft blind parasite looking for a host to leech off."
10-12-07, 03:50 AM
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So what about the citizens of that county that ride bikes? Why didn't they just ban the bicycle, entirely? If I live there and fall due to a road condition, the precedent's set for a lawsuit.
Story:
A friend of mine is flying back from Phoenix and is sitting next to two gentlemen and they begin talking, and it turns out they are from London and are attorneys. They were "interning" so to speak with a law firm in Phoenix with whom their London firm does international business.
My friend asks, "Now that you've experienced our justice system, what do you see as the differences?" One of the attorneys said, "In England, we look for fault, then look for money. In the US, you look for money, then look for fault."
Pretty much sums it up.
Story:
A friend of mine is flying back from Phoenix and is sitting next to two gentlemen and they begin talking, and it turns out they are from London and are attorneys. They were "interning" so to speak with a law firm in Phoenix with whom their London firm does international business.
My friend asks, "Now that you've experienced our justice system, what do you see as the differences?" One of the attorneys said, "In England, we look for fault, then look for money. In the US, you look for money, then look for fault."
Pretty much sums it up.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 10-12-07 at 04:11 AM.
10-12-07, 04:01 AM
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>>The decision follows a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the family of a man who died after he lost control of his bike on a county road during RAGBRAI 2004.
The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash<<
It would appear that the County's own attorneys agreed to this settlement. Even if it was a jury award, the system is self limiting. Capricious awards are very rare in our court system. This man died. Making the entire RAGBRAI event ( plus thousands of participants, the local economy) suffer in a fit of pique over this outcome strikes me as a preposterous over reaction by a bunch of complete idiots.
Not for nothing, but $350K is a relatlivey small percentage of the budget for an entire county. Try to keep things in perspective. The pinheads in this Iowa county were unable to do that. Has anyone here ever had their front wheel caught in a slot in the road that subsequently dumped them hard @ 20mph? I have. It really sucks. And I recall being very angry about it at the time, and wondering why any road crew wouldn't pave a road in a more responsible manner. My family didn't sue anybody over the incident, but of course I'm not friggin DEAD. Where is the responsibility of the county in this manner? A court case requires the facts to be deliberated carefully, not judged from a cursory glance at some newspaper article.
Our system of civil torts works. If that doesn't work for you we could revert back to the Good Old Days when people settled such disputes with rocks, swords and guns. The ultimate irony is that this county's local economy will almost surely lose more money over a few years from this major event not passing through than the relatively modest $350,000 court settlement. F'em.
Last edited by patentcad; 10-12-07 at 04:11 AM.
10-12-07, 04:10 AM
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Bull****.
>>The decision follows a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the family of a man who died after he lost control of his bike on a county road during RAGBRAI 2004.
The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash<<
It would appear that the County's own attorneys agreed to this settlement. Even if it was a jury award, the system is self limiting. Capricious awards are very rare in our court system. This man died. Making the entire RAGBRAI event ( plus thousands of participants, the local economy) suffer in a fit of pique over this outcome strikes me as a preposterous over reaction by a bunch of complete idiots.
Not for nothing, but $350K is a relatlivey small percentage of the budget for an entire county. Try to keep things in perspective. The pinheads in this Iowa county were unable to do that, but perhaps you can muster the intelligence. Or maybe not.
>>The decision follows a settlement of a lawsuit filed by the family of a man who died after he lost control of his bike on a county road during RAGBRAI 2004.
The lawsuit, which was settled for $350,000, claims Kirk Ullrich, of Davenport, was riding his bike on a county road when his tire fell into a gap causing him to crash<<
It would appear that the County's own attorneys agreed to this settlement. Even if it was a jury award, the system is self limiting. Capricious awards are very rare in our court system. This man died. Making the entire RAGBRAI event ( plus thousands of participants, the local economy) suffer in a fit of pique over this outcome strikes me as a preposterous over reaction by a bunch of complete idiots.
Not for nothing, but $350K is a relatlivey small percentage of the budget for an entire county. Try to keep things in perspective. The pinheads in this Iowa county were unable to do that, but perhaps you can muster the intelligence. Or maybe not.
I spent 22 years in the insurance business running an operation well over a hundred million dollars and insured a number of counties...the attorneys for the county didn't do jack. It was the carrier that negotiated a value for this person's life with his survivors.
Now as to the elimination of this entire event...yeah, I agree. But I still come back to the people who live in that county that ride bicycles. They still have an exposure to them. It's really not stopped much other than the people in this ride making one trip a year through their county. Seems idiotic to say the least.
Last edited by roadwarrior; 10-12-07 at 04:26 AM.
10-12-07, 04:14 AM
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10-12-07, 04:19 AM
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Shouldn't the title of this thread be 'RAGBRAI banned from Iowa county due to myopic county officials'?
10-12-07, 04:21 AM
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So if the RAGBRAI participants ride thru Crawford County next year will they be arrested?
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10-12-07, 05:03 AM
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When I drove a rental car in Britain two two summers ago, I was constantly wondering where the cyclists would ride. There are generally no shoulders. At times it was challenging fitting our rental Saab wagon through the hedgerows. Plus they were all driving on the wrong side (not me of course).
I'll keep our 'crappy' roads here in NY, thank you.
I'll keep our 'crappy' roads here in NY, thank you.
10-12-07, 05:53 AM
#22
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.... Capricious awards are very rare in our court system. This man died. Making the entire RAGBRAI event ( plus thousands of participants, the local economy) suffer in a fit of pique over this outcome strikes me as a preposterous over reaction by a bunch of complete idiots....
In some places, quality of the roads is a function of how much money they have -- county roads tend to be the worst maintained ones that I see. Maybe we should sue the individuals responsible for raising taxes or taxpayers for failing to fund them properly....
I've been on rides where people have been killed before. Never heard of anyone blaming the road even if I have seen quite a few dangerous road conditions. This is one of those situations where the old adage "if you can't dance, don't blame the floor" applies.
10-12-07, 06:13 AM
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I'm going with Pcad on this one. The guy died on a road that was not in proper shape. His heirs did not get millions; I'm not sure if they are entitled to a life insurance payout (or even if the guy had life insurance) after the lawsuit but the value isn't that far from what one would expect from one. And, if he didn't have life insurance (tsk tsk, but not everyone does), why shouldn't the family get some sort of compensation still? Maybe his insurance company wouldn't pay out, since they deemed it a as a result of a poorly maintained road?
Crap happens. That's why we have insurance, for both parties. The payout seems fair, but the banning of an event seems drastic. Hopefully, it will spark more debate as to road conditions, and the impact on bicycles.
Crap happens. That's why we have insurance, for both parties. The payout seems fair, but the banning of an event seems drastic. Hopefully, it will spark more debate as to road conditions, and the impact on bicycles.
10-12-07, 06:19 AM
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10-12-07, 06:33 AM
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I'm going with Pcad on this one. The guy died on a road that was not in proper shape. His heirs did not get millions; I'm not sure if they are entitled to a life insurance payout (or even if the guy had life insurance) after the lawsuit but the value isn't that far from what one would expect from one. And, if he didn't have life insurance (tsk tsk, but not everyone does), why shouldn't the family get some sort of compensation still? Maybe his insurance company wouldn't pay out, since they deemed it a as a result of a poorly maintained road?
Crap happens. That's why we have insurance, for both parties. The payout seems fair, but the banning of an event seems drastic. Hopefully, it will spark more debate as to road conditions, and the impact on bicycles.
Crap happens. That's why we have insurance, for both parties. The payout seems fair, but the banning of an event seems drastic. Hopefully, it will spark more debate as to road conditions, and the impact on bicycles.
Ragbrai will just find another route - no big deal.
