astonv0l

Thanks everyone, seems that most people feel it would be a distraction. I guess the sound ov v6/v8 engines will have to be my music

RiPHRaPH

once i had a 2 hour air guitar solo going - wrapped it up as i returned to my driveway.

Rich Clark

I don't think so. I think it's more likely to happen to someone who's listening to music while riding, thinking to himself "I have to do what I WANT to do" (to paraphase your earlier post). And less likely to happen to a rider who's focused, undistracted, and thinking "I have to do what's safest."

RichC

Ba-Dg-Er

As I said before, such is life. I am not going to worry about everything that could happen ... I am certain every one of us don't live life to the safest possible extent because if we did we wouldn't be riding a bike to begin with. You will not convince me not to listen to music, it's what I do ... and if I get hit, so be it. It's not like any of you will ever know one way or another, so don't worry about it.

~LongRider~

Riding on public streets, is dangerous enough. Riding on public streets, without the ability to hear, is not one of lifes little risks. You are taking this discussion too personally. I dont care if you sky dive naked, with no parachute, while using your ball sack for wings, (much like a flying squirrel). It's just a discussion. Im not going to send the radio nazi's to your house.

roadbuzz

All these responses, and only one answered his question! Far be it from me to break the trend.

When discussions about headphones come up, it makes me wonder why more people don't ride with mirrors, aside from the fact that it clashes with the pro kit.

Ba-Dg-Er

So I'm not supposed to take it personally when I am told that a driver of an Escalade is going to run me over?

The fact remains that none of you know how or where I ride. Sure I listen to music because I love music and I love cycling, but I listen only on nonbusy roads where I know that the majority of drivers are curtious, and I listen at a lowered volume with only one earpiece in. I can hear cars, I can hear riders, I can still hear horns, sirens, etc.

Certainly I could get run over by an Escalade the next time I am out on a deserted road listening to my music, or I could get run over by a Focus at a busy intersection without the music. I could be distracted by sweat in my eyes, trying to reach for a water bottle, or just trying to crest a hill at a new top speed. But the same could happen to any of us, these are the risks we take as cyclists.

For an individual to come right out and say I will get hit is like wishing it upon me and if that's what they want, so be it. But don't get upset if I take it personally.

wza97

I usually listen to the last song I actually heard as it plays over and over in my head. Sometimes this can be quite painful, but it's usually something good--lately a lot of Springsteen.

I don't have much confidence in the drivers on the road as it is, much less if I don't hear them coming. Not to mention my own road-riding ability is less than expert at this point.

Rich Clark

I'm sorry you took it that way. I certainly don't assume that everyone who says to me that "riding in traffic will get you killed" is wishing me dead.

I was making a point about the effects of distraction and insulation from one's environment. The point stands, and whether you take it personally is entirely up to you.

RichC

rippo

hey cAPSLOCK...we're in the same line of work!

i used to run with headphones (paths, beach, not road) but i found that it was too annoying...music distracted me from what i was doing. i LOVE music (i must, if i'm willing to make it my day job). but i couldn't stand it when i was running, and i think i'd be the same way on a bike.

but i'm sure i'd get busted by the cops if i tried it, and they wouldn't let me keep it in jail. (is it a hanging offense in Cali? i don't know)

LaFlore

Well.. this year I've taken to riding with headphones occasionally on my solo rides. I keep the volume fairly low and I can still hear traffic coming up behind me. Does it distract me? A bit, but in a good way in that it helps pass the time a bit easier on the longer rides. What can I say, I simply love music. Does it help my riding (if that's the original question)? I guess so, in that I can get into a groove on interval or climbing days which makes it a bit easier mentally, and the long endurance rides can be more interesting.

Another thing.. if anything, my awareness while riding has actually gone up despite using headphones occasionally. I now use a mirror that fits discretely in my sunglasses (what can I say - I race ), and I now notice *all* traffic that comes up behind me. I'm more visual oriented, and this helps my comfort level on the busier roads moreso than being able to fully hear environment sounds. Yes, thanks to my mirror, I've noticed erratic drivers as well as white line huggers - and gave them room!

IMO, if you do use anything that obstructs hearing, you need to be sure to especially watch intersections and make eye contact with drivers. But that's a good rule of thumb to use anyways.

Riding has inherent risk to, each and everytime you roll down the driveway and onto public roads..

LaFlore

Just curious.. would you make the same argument about using a mirror versus not using one? I don't think it can be argued that using one does not raise one's awareness of environment.

pointyhead

I listen to the voices in my head. Going anaerobic silences them.

khuon

Which one do you use? I've tried the Third Eye Micromirror dot-mirror and really couldn't get it to work. I'm thinking of trying the CycleAware ViewPoint to see if it's any better.

cAPSLOCK

So what do you do rippo? I am a studio owner in the Dallas area, and I am just now in the process of building a new little site on my property (shh don't tell the code enforcers). If you are interested I will show you some pictures when I get it all up and running. I also play drums, keyboards and write some music myself.

On top of this I LISTEN TO MUSIC WHEN I RIDE!!! WOO !! HOOO!!!

Current list has changed... todays ride will include:

Vangellis "Blade Runner"
Shpongle "Shpongle Tales"
Gomez - Various tunes
Beulah - Various tunes
Holst - "The Planets"

cAPS

Rich Clark

Not sure the two things are analogous, but I certainly agree that mirrors are very beneficial, and I always use one (a Take-a-Look glasses-mount).

You don't spend 100% of the time looking in the mirror; you use it when you're about to make a move, to "check six" before merging left, or when approaching an intersection to make sure there's nobody about to right-hook you. And many riders seem quite capable of achieving the same level of situational awareness by turning their heads, and are skilled enough to look behind them without swerving.

So I don't think mirror use and music listening are comparable. You don't play music in order to ignore it, and to whatever extent it claims your attention, to that extent it's distracting. Obviously, a lot of people think they can control their focus despite the distraction; drivers generally feel the same way about their coffee and CD players and cell phones. And most of the time, they can.

At the same time, I believe most drivers are operating on the belief that even if they get into an accident, they won't really get hurt. They're protected by the cage. They're not really gambling with their own lives.

Obviously this is often not true, but it's never true for a cyclist.

I disagree with whoever earlier said that cycling itself is risky anyway. I think an expert vehicular cyclist is safer than a driver, and I've seen at least some statistical evidence to support that belief. I'm not willing to give up any of my advantage, however, by adding distractions. One reason I'm safe is that my focus is entirely on the ride.

RichC

LaFlore

It is the Third Eye model. It certainly takes getting used to, as it relies highly on peripheral vision (for my facial dimensions, anyway). I use smallish Smith Toaster sunglasses, and even with those it works quite well. Well worth it, in my opinion. My main challenge with the mirror is keeping it from falling off when I'm washing my sunglasses, as the adhesive is aging.

With the mirror, I still have to turn my head a few degrees, but hey, that's way better than doing a full head check to view traffic behind me. Especially when you're riding two-up in a group.

Heh, I've also noticed moves happening behind me (left side anyway) in races.. shh.

khuon

I have Rudy Project Kerosenes and sometimes I ride with the Rx inserts (most of the time I ride with contacts) so I positioned the mirror a little further out to clear the inserts. I'm wondering if the wrappiness (closeness of fit? extreme angle?) of the wraps is the problem. I've already gone through half the supplied adhesive pads trying to find a good position for them. I'm starting to wonder if they're worth it. I've gotten pretty good at turning my head to steal a glance from many years of not having ridden with a mirror. I think I would still end up turning my head anyways. I think of mirrors (at least when I'm driving) as part of my scan to monitor and maintain my SA but I will always physically glance to clear my maneuvers.

Stinger9oh

Your success with the View Point depends on the size and sweep of the lens as well as the shape of your skull. It worked great for me on a pair of cheap knock-offs I bought at Big 5, but I can't use it on my new Bolles. Because of the deep wrap-around of the Bolle lenses, the mirror has to be very close to my eye. So close that it actually interferes with my eyelid movement. That is just too annoying, so I'm back to my clip on mirror.

There is only one spot on the lens where the View Point will work. It does not have enough variability of movement to give you any choice on location.

Rich

LaFlore

You'd be surprised.. my little mirror is so convenient to use (few degrees turn of head) that I'd estimate that I see 90%+ of traffic coming up behind me - thanks to very frequent mirror checks. I've grown so dependent on it, in fact, that I feel nekkid without my mirror. I mean, having a visual on traffic tells you so much more than simply hearing it. Numerous times I've spotted erratic drivers, along with those who seem to want to give me a "close shave" as they come by. Anyway, I didn't intend this to turn into a mirror thread..

For me, sure the music is distracting from the suffering on a hard training ride, or maybe from boredom on a long ride. I'll make the claim that it doesn't necessarily distract me from my surroundings, as my visual system picks up the slack. I simply look around a lot more, especially at intersections. Not to mention I keep the volume low on my headphones.

rippo

i produce electronic music...'techno'. got a little studio in the back yard where i make all my music. a pre-existing back unit that i just filled with audio equipment. and (so as to keep this bike-related) that's where i keep my bike!

hibiscus09

I can barely hear cars coming up anyway due to the wind. I sure don't want anything plugged in to my ears while riding my bike!

cAPSLOCK

Cool Rippo... I also write a little electronica perhaps you would enjoy it. Not Techno exactly... but you might like it anyway:

https://mp3.com/laterain

Used to be lots more there... but I wont pay to have more than three.

cAPS

astonv0l

This maybe a stupid question (whats new) but when your talking to someone in your car or singing to loud music in your car (comeon, I know you do it :-] ) dosen't that distract you aswell ?.
I'm not sure about how distracting music is after reading this thread and doing some research on the web. If you get into a mental zone with OR without music, I read you may end up tuning your surrounding out?
interesting topic I started, love that you guys get engaged, this is why I think this place is so cool, (learned about mirrors on slasses aswell)

rippo

yeah that's all distracting too! "they" (whoever "they" are) recently did a study, saw it on tv so it must be true. cameras were put into cars to see what people were really doing. the most common cause of distraction, i.e. people taking their eyes of the road, was to eat, fiddle with the radio or controls, or fish around for something lost under the seat. cell phones came much lower in the list. so there are lots of distractions driving, and i'd say the same is true for riding. looking too long at attractive people on the beach, for example. checking to see what gear you're in every two minutes. obsessing too much about why your back wheel feels flat but doesn't look flat. i think the idea is to minimize the distractions. and putting on headphones seems like adding a distraction that is both constant and unnecessary.