teterider

Well I don't normally solicit opinions here, but I'm mentally blocked on this decision.

I picked up the Ksyrium ES campy rear from Nashbar for $250, which yes now appears to have been a mistake by them as its way back up same as the Shimano version. Now, I still have to find a good price on a matching front, currently around $360 on sale, but perhaps as 2007 stock gets old or with a coupon it might get around $300. So I'd be in for ~$600 factoring in shipping costs.

Or, I found American Classic CR 420 (non-bladed), in black for Campy for $370 shipped, new from real retailer.

With all the road bikes I've had, I've honestly never owned a seriously great wheelset. Low end stuff at first, then to a stock Cannondale set of Coda Expert hubs, Mavic CXP23 rims, double butted with alloy nipples, then onto my current Xero XR-1 hold-me-overs until this day. The Cannondale set I rode for 5 years was actually quite nice, and the Xero set is flexy, but they have been very durable even with low spoke count. I've never broken a spoke on a road bike in 22 years, and only due to sticks on a mountain bike.

Ksyriums are supposed to be bulletproof and stiff, and I need good lateral stiffness for my 180 pounds of power climbing. But are they worth $240 more - well an extra $240 over the next 4 years of using them is nothing, so the money isn't all that much a concern. ACs are more aero. As for bling I'm sucked in by the shiney ES red but so too by the striking higher profile rims/white decals on AC.
They will be going on the new red/black RS2 frame, or if I don't end up liking the frame, my spine Tete with my existing red SLR saddle or other matching goodies.

OK, lets hear it.

Rutnick

get the Mavics. They might be heavier than the AC's but:

I've owned the 420 non-bladed. I'm around 185lbs. I couldn't keep them true and they had a very small braking surface. On the front wheel, I could feel the weld seam everytime I braked.

Another rider in my club has the exact same wheelset and hasn't had an issue out of them.

Also, the 420s were pretty flexy at my body weight.

mrt10x

I have been riding 420's for the last couple of years, and have loved them. I keep wanting to buy new wheels with more bling.. but I just cant find a wheel that is aero, light, and so far bomb proof. I weigh in at 185 and have never had any issues with the wheels staying true.. I do on occasion feel like I am flexing them in an all out sprint.. in the end that flex may be the reason I finally pull the trigger on something else. If the ES's are as light as the 420s and stiffer??? then I say go that way.

edit.. I had my eye on some topolinos on Price point today..

prendrefeu

Neither. Sell what you got, pick up a set from Williams Cycling. Win.

ZXiMan

Why not a newer set of '08 Kysrium SLs? They look just like the ES, are cheaper and even lighter and stiffer than the older ES's. They are 22mm deep front and 25mm deep rear and have aysemetrical rims. I have them and love them...

felt1

Check out the new Mavic SL's they are almost the same as last years ES with a stiffer, slightly more aero rear wheel. They don't come with the Ti scewers though, CroMo instead. www.lickbike.com if you call them they will give you a better deal than the net deal. I just ordered some for $720 shipped for '08 SL's

ZXiMan

Yeah, what he said!

Fat Boy

If you look at the comparison between the various Mavic wheels at the AC 420's on the comparison thread, there is no comparison. The AC performs better. I think those were probably a bladed spoke as opposed to a round one, I'm not sure how much of a difference that would have made.

Someone posted that the AC 420 'punched above it's weight' and they were spot on. They have good aero and stiffness properties, but at the same time were one of the least expensive wheel in the survey. Are they as slick as a Zipp, no. Are they as stiff as the best, no. They do perform significantly better than anything that costs close to them and many that cost much more, including the Kysrium ES.

I've got a set of bladed 420's. I like them. I paid $400 for them and I'm really glad I did. I'm a little lighter than the OP at 155, but I go up some pretty steep climbs and stiffness, to me, is a non-issue.

elgalad

I'll throw in another +1 on the American Classics.

I've been running a set of 420s for about 8,000 km, and I've had no problems whatsoever, with the exception of folding up the front wheel when I got hit by a car, but that would happen to any wheel. They're reasonably light, genuinely aerodynamic, and the sealed bearing hubs roll very smoothly. I can't really speak to stiffness, as I weigh only 140 lbs, but others seem to have favorable opinions.

At the price you're being offered, I wouldn't have a second thought about buying the 420s over the Ksyriums. Also, the white decals on the 420s are very striking - I've had more than a few compliments from fellow riders on how good they look on my bike

patentcad

Mavic ES.

Wait. Was that a serious question, or are you just trying to flush out elgalad? And why isn't he riding Australian Classics? They'd probably rotate in the opposite direction anyway.

PhatRoadie

I've had both. The AC420's are lighter, and are probably more aero. However the Mavics are more durable and have a quicker free hub engagement. The AC's brake surface is very thin and wears down fairly quickly, especially if you ride in the rain. The bearings are also rather small and tend to get crunchy quickly.

I would get the Mavics.

elgalad

I'm not sure which year 420s you had, but American Classic gave the wheels a new machined braking surface for 2007. It is still quiet narrow, but seems to be a bit more resilient than the old brushed surface used previously

mrt10x

A truly funny PCad post...

felt1

I would of beat you if one of my employees didn't come in my office and ask a stupid question. Which took about 1.5 minutes for me to answer.

ZXiMan

heh, it's ok...

mrt10x

Went to their website.. didn't seem all that great to me.. which wheel are you hot on???

teterider

It does appear after much Google searching that the CR420s are more flexible, still good, but more flexible. with a less burly rim. It also appears for a real "set and forget" type wheel the Ksyriums are better, and I'm looking for a wheel I won't have to even think about for years.

My strong frugal part is shoving me to the ACs, but, there is that small doubt in my head about them that doesn't exist with the Ksyriums. I have a set of Mavic Crosslands on my Kona Hot - the original top of the line Crosslands, not the reincarnated namesake entry level version. These were the MTB version of the Heliums with the 26 radial front spokes, 28 rear, and these wheels have been solid with super smooth hubs. I've beaten the snot out of various Mavic rims on the Norba circuit back in my racing days with never an issue. And to top it off Mavic's home town is one of my favorite places in the world, where I vow to one day Paraglide off the Parmelan. I already have the rear ES siting here, and I guess I'm answering my question.

Performance has lowered the sale price on the front ES too as I suspected; cheaper than Nashbars price with current 10% code. Any Performance coupon codes out there?

patentcad

Fixed.

damocles1

Neither...

Get something built. Nio30 rims on White Industries hub and CX-Ray spokes will weigh less, be more reliable and serviceable and likely less money.

patentcad

Ksyriums may be a bit more dough, but they're just phenomenally bulletproof. If you ride lots of miles in all kinds of conditions, that's a no-brainer. I have three sets, they're all amazing, indestructible, relatively light and they look great. I've never really had that experience with any other wheels over 18 years of daily cycling. I can't tell you what to buy, I can only relate what I've seen after riding my bike over 100K miles. On the other hand Mavic 'customer service' blows. Fortunately since the wheels hardly ever have an issue, you'll probably never have to deal with them.

teterider

Niobium 30 rims, pair: ~$120
White Industries H1 Hubs: ~$400
52 CX-Ray Spokes: ~$140
Labor ~$80

Total: $740
Weight: almost identical to ES (by the way my new rear ES is within 5 grams of 840 claimed).

So I'd spend more, and CX-Rays are really strong but actually don't make very stiff wheels. Point is taken though on custom wheel build and I am considering it a bit. Typically the custom build argument is extremely true and valid when talking about the Ksyriums at normal price. But once you reach ~$600 and under for a brand new ES or even SL3 set, well then there's definitely a question.

Skewer

Well there was the 2008 Great Wheel Test that was posted on here a few days ago---alleging that Ksyrium ES was the worst on the list for eating up watts with aerodynamic drag at 33 watts at 50kmph versus the 420s at 25 watts at 50 kph.

https://www.rouesartisanales.com/0-categorie-94458.html

StanSeven

Besides the Krysiums being stronger/more durable, the AC 420 isn't as aero as they look. Take a look at the rim shape - it's a flat wedge without any roundness or curved shape to it. It's less expensive to make and only gives the appearnce of a truly deep and fast rim.

grahny

I have Ksyrium SL premium's (the new ES's) and they've been fantastic. Can't speak to the AC420's, but know people who have been riding them and love them too. I was in the same boat and went with the Ksyrium's 'cause I got a good deal on them. I wanted a stiff, reasonably light, bombproof wheel for all conditions that would take a beating from my 185lb frame.

The AC420 rims seem to be the same as my Rolf Vigor rims (same depth of 34mm, and very little braking surface). Brakes were a little tricky to set up because of the limited braking surface, but it never really posed a problem on the road.

damocles1

All of those parts can be had for less than retail. Believe me, I did it. I have $550 in my Nio19/White/CXray wheels, excluding labor. I never cheap out on the build.
As for CX-Rays not building a stiff wheel...BS! My wheels are 32h and 3x, weigh 1405grams and are stiffer than my old SL3 Ksyriums ever thought about being. AND, they are faster...more aero and much smoother. I don't miss my Ksyriums at all.