Should a dealer charge for...
01-24-08, 09:22 AM
#51
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10% on accessories is pretty standard. You shouldn't feel like an ass, especially since you had every intention of buying a bike. At least you didn't go in for a fit, with every intention of ordering one on the internet. You don't have to buy the bike, you know 
. If you don't mind spending the $30 on the stem, go for it, but I, along with many on this forum feel that supporting that kind of business isn't for us.
The fact is, most LBSs are struggling, and a large percentage will fail. Why not help one that is actually trying to promote cycling as opposed to going after the new guy's money with little regard for service.
. If you don't mind spending the $30 on the stem, go for it, but I, along with many on this forum feel that supporting that kind of business isn't for us.The fact is, most LBSs are struggling, and a large percentage will fail. Why not help one that is actually trying to promote cycling as opposed to going after the new guy's money with little regard for service.
01-24-08, 09:29 AM
#52
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Wow...fascinating responses.
I don't really know what the margins are on bikes, but apparently, Zeimas does. What I do know is that an internet dealer on one of the coasts was willing to ship me the same $865 Jamis (msrp) to my door for $665. Of course, I would have had to pay build-up fees, so I thought it the more prudent decision to pay a bit more locally in order to get a fitting and service. Yes, that's why I shy away from sites like BikesDirect.com as well.
When I thought I had the group buy discount, it was a no brainer. The shop was graciously willing to give 15% off for 4 buyers, and 10% off for 2-3, which I thought was cool. When the other members of my group crapped out, I did feel like an ass. At least they are willing to give 10% off accessories and install the bike rack...
I don't really know what the margins are on bikes, but apparently, Zeimas does. What I do know is that an internet dealer on one of the coasts was willing to ship me the same $865 Jamis (msrp) to my door for $665. Of course, I would have had to pay build-up fees, so I thought it the more prudent decision to pay a bit more locally in order to get a fitting and service. Yes, that's why I shy away from sites like BikesDirect.com as well.
When I thought I had the group buy discount, it was a no brainer. The shop was graciously willing to give 15% off for 4 buyers, and 10% off for 2-3, which I thought was cool. When the other members of my group crapped out, I did feel like an ass. At least they are willing to give 10% off accessories and install the bike rack...
I understand that the idea of helping out a fledgling business in your neighborhood is appealing. But after observing how they do business- to what end? Do you really want to see a shop like this flourish? To grow large? To open more locations, each one with the same apparent lack of caring for it's customers? To drive good shops out of business?
Location or otherwise, you don't owe them a damn thing, and they haven't done a damn thing to deserve your business. Go elsewhere. Believe me, with this kind aptitude for building a customer base, this place will either go under in a year or seriously reconsider the whole nickel and dime approach.
01-24-08, 09:36 AM
#53
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In my experience, a-hole PITA's don't cheerfully say that they may be one when asked if they are. Nice, self-effacing blokes who don't take themselves too seriously do... which is what our OP sounds like. I mean look at his posts thus far- the guy's a kitten... if he's a pushy dick to people's faces, why wouldn't he be a pushy dick anonymously to strangers on the internet?
I do agree with you that the entitlement to special deals people bring with them into bike shops can be too much. But an LBS shouldn't be too concerned with giving a potential repeat customer a few bucks off...
What it sounds like to me is that this guy isn't asserting himself, and faced with piles of startup costs, this shop is trying to take him for everything they can. A dumb strategy. They need to be building a loyal customer base in their first year, not squeezing every penny out of a sale.
I do agree with you that the entitlement to special deals people bring with them into bike shops can be too much. But an LBS shouldn't be too concerned with giving a potential repeat customer a few bucks off...
What it sounds like to me is that this guy isn't asserting himself, and faced with piles of startup costs, this shop is trying to take him for everything they can. A dumb strategy. They need to be building a loyal customer base in their first year, not squeezing every penny out of a sale.
01-24-08, 09:51 AM
#54
30 YR Wrench
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Here's my bike shop owner point of view....
First, it's touring bike. An 80mm stem may work fine since many touring bikes have longish top tubes to begin with. IOW, don't rule out the 80mm as being perfectly appropriate.
Second, I have lots of standard, non-adjustable 80mm stems in stock. We do stem swaps for free as part of the fit, so I'd love to get a 100mm back for a change and put an 80mm on, so I don't know why the shop is being recalcitrant. Adjustable stems are non-optimal, especially for a bike likely to be loaded, but would work fine on a hybrid....
If it was me, I'd whip that 80mm on there, double check the fit, and make the customer and myself happy.
I don't know why the shop in question wants to play games.....
First, it's touring bike. An 80mm stem may work fine since many touring bikes have longish top tubes to begin with. IOW, don't rule out the 80mm as being perfectly appropriate.
Second, I have lots of standard, non-adjustable 80mm stems in stock. We do stem swaps for free as part of the fit, so I'd love to get a 100mm back for a change and put an 80mm on, so I don't know why the shop is being recalcitrant. Adjustable stems are non-optimal, especially for a bike likely to be loaded, but would work fine on a hybrid....
If it was me, I'd whip that 80mm on there, double check the fit, and make the customer and myself happy.
I don't know why the shop in question wants to play games.....
01-24-08, 10:02 AM
#55
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Most things in our economy don't sell for MSRP (the S is for suggested in case you don't know). Competition between businesses has caused price wars to make us expect discounted prices all the time. There's nothing wrong with charging MSRP, but if competition is willing to sell it for MSRP -10%, you should expect to lose sales.
01-24-08, 10:09 AM
#56
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01-24-08, 10:14 AM
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I actually just came back from visiting two LBS. One offered me a Thompson seatpost for a 35% discount and the other Deda Newton bars for $35.
Part of getting great deals at the LBS is not being a prick.
01-24-08, 10:28 AM
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^ Then why were you such an advocate for paying MSRP on the previous page? Or do you deserve the discount and not the rest of us?
01-24-08, 10:33 AM
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For two, it doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, but be prepared to be told that you aren't getting one.
Do all you folks complaining about not getting a discount offer discounts for the products or services you produce to everyone who asks?
01-24-08, 10:42 AM
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01-24-08, 10:46 AM
#61
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For one, I was offered the discount. I don't think I'm entitled to a discount. I've never asked for a discount at either of these shops, but they choose to offer them to me. (I was also told at one if I need any repairs I'll be bumped up to the front of the line. Cool.)
For two, it doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, but be prepared to be told that you aren't getting one.
Do all you folks complaining about not getting a discount offer discounts for the products or services you produce to everyone who asks?
For two, it doesn't hurt to ask for a discount, but be prepared to be told that you aren't getting one.
Do all you folks complaining about not getting a discount offer discounts for the products or services you produce to everyone who asks?
For two, I'm not complaining. It's just customary (at least here in the US) to shop for the best price, and for the record I do offer a discount on my services. I charge $10-50 less per hour than many of my competitors do. That's how I get customers!
01-24-08, 10:58 AM
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^^^
As an American I'm well familiar with the Wal*Mart cheaper, cheaper, cheaper mentality and the sense of entitlement that goes with it.
Do you give a discounts to people who ask? I'm sure some still do regardless of your price.
As an American I'm well familiar with the Wal*Mart cheaper, cheaper, cheaper mentality and the sense of entitlement that goes with it.
Do you give a discounts to people who ask? I'm sure some still do regardless of your price.
01-24-08, 11:03 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by Ziemas
I actually just came back from visiting two LBS. One offered me a Thompson seatpost for a 35% discount and the other Deda Newton bars for $35.
Part of getting great deals at the LBS is not being a prick.
Part of getting great deals at the LBS is not being a prick.
P.S. if you are Amish, is your bike and kit "plain"?
01-24-08, 11:07 AM
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Yes, I give an EXTRA discount to people I think are worthwhile. Mainly friends, of course. I also wouldn't blame anyone for thinking I'm crazy for charging full price for my services, even though some people pay the premium for the big dogs in the industry.
01-24-08, 11:07 AM
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Dude... get a shovel, go to your local boneyard, and exhume your sense of humor. I love how that post, which honestly, while being a little racy is still tame enough for a network sitcom, makes me sick and twisted and full of negativity. What are you, Amish?
So when the mechanic tells a dirty joke and you get all bent out of shape and faint like some 16th century English Dutchess, they dig that and want to hook you up?
P.S. if you are Amish, is your bike and kit "plain"?
So when the mechanic tells a dirty joke and you get all bent out of shape and faint like some 16th century English Dutchess, they dig that and want to hook you up?
P.S. if you are Amish, is your bike and kit "plain"?
01-24-08, 11:09 AM
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So just like the LBS you don't give a discount to just anyone who asks. Why do you think an LBS should give out such liberal discounts to everyone who asks if you aren't willing to yourself?
01-24-08, 11:12 AM
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Either that, or you're misunderstanding that I already offer a discount to everyone, whereas the LBS in question is starting at full price. So I have already given the discount to everyone whether they ask or not.
(I gave two perspectives to address two ways you could be looking at it)
01-24-08, 11:21 AM
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Your advice seems to be that this is acceptable behavior from an LBS... and honestly, that's vaguely creepy.
We ask ourselves, "Who is this vaguely creepy guy who wants to pay full retail and get bad service? Why does he think this is a good idea? Does he hate himself?"
It's like watching a gay guy vote Republican...
01-24-08, 11:21 AM
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Find another shop that will give you a discount on the bike and a free stem.
No one pays retail anymore when you can get things half price online
No one pays retail anymore when you can get things half price online
01-24-08, 11:27 AM
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You are twisting my words. I didn't say they should give a discount. I just said they shouldn't charge full price. If someone came up to me and told me that my competitor was willing to charge $10 less than me, I would have to justify why my product is worth $10 more, offer the $10 discount, or let the customer go to my comnpetitor.
Either that, or you're misunderstanding that I already offer a discount to everyone, whereas the LBS in question is starting at full price. So I have already given the discount to everyone whether they ask or not.
(I gave two perspectives to address two ways you could be looking at it)
Either that, or you're misunderstanding that I already offer a discount to everyone, whereas the LBS in question is starting at full price. So I have already given the discount to everyone whether they ask or not.
(I gave two perspectives to address two ways you could be looking at it)
Do people still ask you for a discount even though your price is fair?
01-24-08, 11:30 AM
#71
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01-24-08, 11:37 AM
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01-24-08, 11:41 AM
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The one thing you aren't factoring in is the fact that the modern American expects goods for what are in many cases are unrealistic prices. The cheaper, cheaper, cheaper mentality has a cost of it's own either in poorer quality or less service. I have a suspicion that the OP wants both a rock bottom price on a current model bike and excellent service at the same time while admitting being a PITA. Good luck with that.
FWIW, I get amazing deals at my LBS (I don't work at one). In fact I'm heading over there today to look for some bars, a seat post and a stem for a new build.
FWIW, I get amazing deals at my LBS (I don't work at one). In fact I'm heading over there today to look for some bars, a seat post and a stem for a new build.
Have you even read this thread?
He's paying full retail, and getting NO service from the dealer. Yea, he's REALLy putting the screws to 'em all right.
Quit being contrary for no reason.
01-24-08, 11:46 AM
#74
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I could offer a way better discount on this service, heck I feel like offering this service pro-bono in Latvia
01-24-08, 11:47 AM
#75
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