celerystalksme

i just assumed that tubulars were the way to go for speed. why? because that's what everyone told me...and because they're generally lighter. well...i was just reading random cycling stuff on the internet when i ran across this: https://www.velonews.com/tech/report/...s/12493.0.html

get to the part about tubulars and clinchers. did i read that article right? do clinchers require less watts to reach a target speed? do clinchers achieve a higher top speed given a set wattage?

is this article crack/cocaine influenced? or are we all dumb for thinking tubulars are the way to go if you want speed?

input please!

brians647

I've read that too. I believe that the difference is minute, and is only measurable at comparable psi's. The tubulars can be inflated to a higher psi if you want to minimize rolling resistance (to a point). However, I think they see a lot more use because the ride quality is superior - even if you give up a watt or two.

grolby

The alleged engineer gives the following paragraph as evidence for the significance of lower rolling resistance in clinchers:

"As a check, I used coast-down tests...the surprising thing is, that even though the 404s are much more aero than the Ritcheys, my "terminal velocity" was actually greater by 1mph with the clinchers (41.8mph versus 40.8mph). Plugging these numbers into www.analyticcycling.com. I get the same Crr difference to account for that speed difference." [emphasis added]

Does that raise your eyebrows? It raised mine.

It's like this: yeah, maybe clinchers roll better than tubulars. But other real world factors will have a much, much greater influence. I, for one, simply don't buy the idea that the greater rolling resistance of the tubulars reduced his average speed by one entire mph. Neither should you. Because, after all, if he's right you should toss your 404s for high end clinchers, since they will clearly provide greater returns. No accounting for other changes in conditions between tests, and only four tests, total? Gimme a break. I would worry about the aerodynamics of your position and your bike and weight long before I have any consideration to rolling resistance.

As a disclaimer, I don't race or anything. This just doesn't smell right.

3MTA3

it's all in the motor.

operator

Except for the part where the end result is lower speed at the same wattage.

patentcad

Clinchers must be faster, which is why every pro team in the UCI rides on tubulars. They all want to be slower.

asgelle

You're convinced by folklore and myth, why shouldn't they be as well?

Droid

and the brand stickers on the bikes they ride are the same brand as the frame they are stuck on too

auk

These days. . .yeah usually they are. Usually pretty easy to tell if tey are not with the design of modern carbon and alu. frames.

Duke of Kent

Pro's ride tubulars because a flat and resulting crash on a rolled clincher will cost them far more time than a tubular ever will.

Not to mention, they handle better than a clincher.

Jono L

You reckon, that maybe, just maybe, they've tought about this already...

deadly downtube

yep...i switched over to clinchers and that's when i started winning races.. made a huge difference in my performance.

DiabloScott

Riding tubulars is like riding bareback... sometimes you just gotta take the risk and live with the consequences - because it feels so damn good.

prendrefeu

It's tough to tell what is sarcasm in this thread and what isn't.

agilis

I need no studies. I went back to tubulars and to me there's no comparison. If you have them inflated right... they are the best. I'll never go back to clinchers.

roadwarrior

Pcad...they race on tubulars, but most of them will train on clinchers.

When you have two team cars with 85 sets of wheels and four mechanics to run out and switch your wheel when you flat, it's a lot easier. Fourty miles from home with a tubular flat's not so much fun unless your wife is following you with the "Pcad Team Car"...Sponsored by Apple Computer...

They are great to race on, and if you are in a crit and you get a flat, you are toast anyway so it does not matter, plus it's a walk across the parking lot or industrial park to your car...

Plus, you've got to hang them in the basement to "age" like great sausage...

roadwarrior

Really?

You need to talk to Joseba Beloki.

botto 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_8m5-sR6I4

roadwarrior

How high do you want to go?

I can, supposedly take my Vredestein Tri-Comps to 175...on the road it's like riding on concrete tires.

On the track, that's a whole different animal, however.

roadwarrior

End of a career...rolled tubular.

botto 

correct.

carpediemracing 

Miguel Indurain apparently used a clincher front and tubular rear. I guess he was wigged out by crashing due to a rolled front tire but a rear tire normally (I said normally) results in either a slide or just a hairy skid to the side of the road.

I think Beloki's crash was a result of a poorly glued tire (it happens, esp in stage races, esp to those who get new tires the day before). I was watching the Z team work on bikes and they found cuts in a couple tires and just super glued them. But when they found something in Lemond's tire they replaced it. Problem is that the glue may not be set by the time they started racing the next day. Lemond didn't crash (or roll his tire) but a totally tired mechanic in the Tour? I could see that happening, esp after seeing things like err the PDM rider who rolled both his tires 500 meters from the line. The Belgian guy who won Worlds in Japan when he went off the front with Dirk DeWolf. He became a commentator on TV and died in a car crash shortly after he stopped racing. Name escapes me. I must be getting old, I always admired this guy.

cdr

botto 

^

Rudy Dhaenens.

Fortunatley he had De Wold with him, so De Wolf could take Dag Otto Lauritzen out. Ol' Dag Otto was flying that day.

patentcad

Money talks. Bull**** walks. UCI racing results involve millions of Euros in sponsorship dollars. Results count.

Let me know if I need to make that simpler.

patentcad

Me too. Many of the hard core local racers here as well. I do 90% of my miles on clinchers. But I also don't know anyone who has ever ridden Zipp 404 tubies who hasn't said 'Wow, those are faster'. I do read a lot of bike weenie posts here from idiots who seem to get all their information from pseudo technical mumbo jumbo articles on the Internet. I wonder how many of those weenies have ever ridden or raced on a nice set of tubie race wheels.

Dude. It's friggin Bike Forums. Pcad can only attempt to inject reason and experience into the mix. But that is like pissing up the world's longest rope.