I fell off :-(
02-09-08, 07:15 AM
#1
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I fell off :-(
I'm a returning cyclist after a 15 year break.
Been out for a ride today & I fell on a bend; I wasn't going that fast but it was a bit damp.
My bike came with Bontranger Race X Lite tyres; they have no tread.
Should I change them for somthing more grippy whilst the weather is still bad or should I just learn to slow down?
Don't want to be falling off again; trashed my jacket, tights, & overshoes ... plus a nice bit of gravel rash :-(
Been out for a ride today & I fell on a bend; I wasn't going that fast but it was a bit damp.
My bike came with Bontranger Race X Lite tyres; they have no tread.
Should I change them for somthing more grippy whilst the weather is still bad or should I just learn to slow down?
Don't want to be falling off again; trashed my jacket, tights, & overshoes ... plus a nice bit of gravel rash :-(
02-09-08, 07:37 AM
#2
I miss my bike.
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Jax, FL
Posts: 409
Bikes: Ridley Excalibur, S-Works Transition
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Tread doesn't really have much to do with grip.
A little of both wouldn't hurt, but most likely (I don't know the exact circumstances) it was a bit of a fluke that you fell.
A little of both wouldn't hurt, but most likely (I don't know the exact circumstances) it was a bit of a fluke that you fell.
02-09-08, 08:06 AM
#3
Time for a change.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: 6 miles inland from the coast of Sussex, in the South East of England
Posts: 19,913
Bikes: Dale MT2000. Bianchi FS920 Kona Explosif. Giant TCR C. Boreas Ignis. Pinarello Fp Uno.
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
4 Posts
Modern rubber on the better tyres does not need any tread. Thinking Continental and Michelin but several others about. Bontrager is not a tyre I have used so cannot comment but it is not a name I would use on anything.
__________________
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
How long was I in the army? Five foot seven.
Spike Milligan
02-09-08, 08:49 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,251
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8261 Post(s)
Liked 8,996 Times
in
4,455 Posts
Some tires come in a "winter" compound, softer rubber for the wet. You could also lower your pressure a little. Slow down, and weight the outside pedal. Oh, forget about tread on bicycle tires.
02-09-08, 08:54 AM
#5
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Rubber feels pretty soft - I think the biggest issue is me bing green and not weighting the outside pedal ... I forgot I used to do that ....
Othewise a nice ride and the gravel rash hid the discomfort in the legs :-) I fell after 2 miles then did another 30.
Othewise a nice ride and the gravel rash hid the discomfort in the legs :-) I fell after 2 miles then did another 30.
02-09-08, 09:02 AM
#6
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,979
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11952 Post(s)
Liked 6,604 Times
in
3,467 Posts
Are you friggin' kidding me? I had to read this 3X to make sure you weren't joking.
Tire thread has EVERYTHING to do with traction (grip).
If you want to ride often in wet or icy conditions you must get tires with more thread and a little wider. See the late Sheldon Brown's web site for detailed discussion in this area.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
02-09-08, 09:08 AM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,201
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
For bike tires as opposed to auto, tread makes less of a contribution torawds grip, due to the very small foot print. However taking a wet corner with slicks is surely asking for trouble - even a little tread is better than none.
__________________
02-09-08, 09:10 AM
#8
Ho-Jahm
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, NH
Posts: 4,228
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Rub your hand on the pavement some time, that's where your grip comes from. Adding tread to a road tire actually takes away grip from dry pavement.
02-09-08, 09:11 AM
#9
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,933
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Liked 509 Times
in
349 Posts
You just need to be careful when turning when it's wet.
From Sheldon Brown's tire page:
From Sheldon Brown's tire page:
Tread for on-road use
Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!
Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while incontact with the road.
People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.
Bicycle tires for on-road use have no need of any sort of tread features; in fact, the best road tires are perfectly smooth, with no tread at all!
Unfortunately, most people assume that a smooth tire will be slippery, so this type of tire is difficult to sell to unsophisticated cyclists. Most tire makers cater to this by putting a very fine pattern on their tires, mainly for cosmetic and marketing reasons. If you examine a section of asphalt or concrete, you'll see that the texture of the road itself is much "knobbier" than the tread features of a good quality road tire. Since the tire is flexible, even a slick tire deforms as it comes into contact with the pavement, acquiring the shape of the pavement texture, only while incontact with the road.
People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.
02-09-08, 09:14 AM
#10
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
02-09-08, 09:35 AM
#11
cab horn
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 28,353
Bikes: 1987 Bianchi Campione
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 25 Times
in
18 Posts
Are you friggin' kidding me? I had to read this 3X to make sure you weren't joking.
Tire thread has EVERYTHING to do with traction (grip).
If you want to ride often in wet or icy conditions you must get tires with more thread and a little wider. See the late Sheldon Brown's web site for detailed discussion in this area.
Shows how much you read. He specifically says, that tread makes NO DIFFERENCE in the wet or ice. In fact, tread is DETRIMENTAL.
e.g Post #9 and
Originally Posted by Sheldon Brown
People ask, "But don't slick tires get slippery on wet roads, or worse yet, wet metal features such as expansion joints, paint stripes, or railroad tracks?" The answer is, yes, they do. So do tires with tread. All tires are slippery in these conditions. Tread features make no improvement in this.
02-09-08, 11:25 AM
#13
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
can anyone recommend some better tyres?
Handleing & grip are my priorities; don't care about durability, I would just buy more...
Handleing & grip are my priorities; don't care about durability, I would just buy more...
02-09-08, 11:27 AM
#14
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posts: 32,979
Bikes: Merlin Cyrene '04; Bridgestone RB-1 '92
Mentioned: 325 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11952 Post(s)
Liked 6,604 Times
in
3,467 Posts
Those skinny slicks are great for dry conditions, but to ride safely in wet conditions you're better off with wider tires. Just get some inexpensive wheels and keep the wider tires on them, and when it's wet and slippery out just throw them on and you're good to go.
As well, psychologically I certainly would feel better about riding with a little texture to my tread and/or having the tires deflated a bit in wet conditions.
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good tread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
It shouldn't take much imagination to extrapolate the phenomena to bike tires under wet conditions. Give the water somewhere to go, i.e. the treads, before it's forced to lift your tire off the pavement. On a two-wheeled vehicle, that could get ugly fast.
__________________
See, this is why we can't have nice things. - - smarkinson
Where else but the internet can a bunch of cyclists go and be the tough guy? - - jdon
Last edited by BillyD; 02-09-08 at 11:53 AM.
02-09-08, 11:44 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Posts: 1,718
Bikes: 2022 Fuel EX 8, 2021 Domane SL6, Black Beta (Nashbar frame), 2004 Trek 1000C for the trainer
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 266 Post(s)
Liked 447 Times
in
266 Posts
https://www.probikekit.com/display.php?code=Y1008
https://two-wheels.michelin.com/2w/fr...150033&lang=EN
02-09-08, 11:56 AM
#17
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
02-09-08, 12:01 PM
#18
don't try this at home.
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: N. KY
Posts: 5,933
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 972 Post(s)
Liked 509 Times
in
349 Posts
No, you fail . . . notice I included "and a little wider".
Those skinny slicks are great for dry conditions, but to ride safely in wet conditions you're better off with wider tires. Just get some inexpensive wheels and keep the wider tires on them, and when it's wet and slippery out just throw them on and you're good to go.
As well, psychologically I certainly would feel better about riding with a little texture to my thread and/or having the tires deflated a bit in wet conditions.
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good thread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
It shouldn't take much imagination to extrapolate the phenomena to bike tires under wet conditions. Give the water somewhere to go, i.e. the threads, before it's forced to lift your tire off the pavement. On a two-wheeled vehicle, that could get ugly fast.
Those skinny slicks are great for dry conditions, but to ride safely in wet conditions you're better off with wider tires. Just get some inexpensive wheels and keep the wider tires on them, and when it's wet and slippery out just throw them on and you're good to go.
As well, psychologically I certainly would feel better about riding with a little texture to my thread and/or having the tires deflated a bit in wet conditions.
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good thread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
It shouldn't take much imagination to extrapolate the phenomena to bike tires under wet conditions. Give the water somewhere to go, i.e. the threads, before it's forced to lift your tire off the pavement. On a two-wheeled vehicle, that could get ugly fast.
Riders still have to be careful about leaning into turns when it's wet. I was riding my MTB with 2 inches of snow last year, it's interesting how much bike riders lean in turns and expect the tires to grip. I would lean just a small amount, and the tire would start sliding out. It didn't seem like I was leaning at all, just steering.
But tread doesn't matter. It's not intuitive that bicycles can't hydroplane, but it's due to the difference in width and speed:
From the same Sheldon Brown page, it's interesting:
Bicycles can NOT hydroplane because:
A bicycle tire has a curved road contact. Since a bicycle leans in corners, it needs a tire with a rounded contact area, which tends to push the water away to either side. A bicycle tire is narrower, so not as much water is in contact with the leading edge at once. The high pressure of bicycle tires is more efficient at squeezing the water out from under. At high bicycle speeds, hydroplaning is just possible for car tires, but is absolutely impossible for bicycle tires.
A bicycle tire has a curved road contact. Since a bicycle leans in corners, it needs a tire with a rounded contact area, which tends to push the water away to either side. A bicycle tire is narrower, so not as much water is in contact with the leading edge at once. The high pressure of bicycle tires is more efficient at squeezing the water out from under. At high bicycle speeds, hydroplaning is just possible for car tires, but is absolutely impossible for bicycle tires.
02-09-08, 12:06 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
No, you fail . . . notice I included "and a little wider".
Those skinny slicks are great for dry conditions, but to ride safely in wet conditions you're better off with wider tires. Just get some inexpensive wheels and keep the wider tires on them, and when it's wet and slippery out just throw them on and you're good to go.
As well, psychologically I certainly would feel better about riding with a little texture to my tread and/or having the tires deflated a bit in wet conditions.
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good tread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
It shouldn't take much imagination to extrapolate the phenomena to bike tires under wet conditions. Give the water somewhere to go, i.e. the treads, before it's forced to lift your tire off the pavement. On a two-wheeled vehicle, that could get ugly fast.
Those skinny slicks are great for dry conditions, but to ride safely in wet conditions you're better off with wider tires. Just get some inexpensive wheels and keep the wider tires on them, and when it's wet and slippery out just throw them on and you're good to go.
As well, psychologically I certainly would feel better about riding with a little texture to my tread and/or having the tires deflated a bit in wet conditions.
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good tread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
It shouldn't take much imagination to extrapolate the phenomena to bike tires under wet conditions. Give the water somewhere to go, i.e. the treads, before it's forced to lift your tire off the pavement. On a two-wheeled vehicle, that could get ugly fast.
A car tire is ____________ <that wide and a bike tire is _ <that wide. Hydorplaning will not be an issue.
02-09-08, 12:42 PM
#20
Used to be a climber..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,849
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Yes - my first pair lasted around 1,500 miles before I replaced them. I had a second pair, but sold those wheels along with the tires.
They are very good tires, although not many people here have used them so they think they are crap. Personally, I'd rather have the Race X Lites than what I'm currently running, Michelin Pro Race 2's (for about a year now).
They are very good tires, although not many people here have used them so they think they are crap. Personally, I'd rather have the Race X Lites than what I'm currently running, Michelin Pro Race 2's (for about a year now).
02-09-08, 12:44 PM
#21
Generic Title
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1,927
Bikes: 2008 Trek Fuel EX7, 2007 Trek 1600, 2007 Eastern Warthog
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Nah, my Trek came with Bonty's to (as do all Treks, Kleins, etc.). They're crap. Bontrager makes bars, saddles, stems and all that other schwag. Let the real tire companies like Michelin, Continental and Maxxis do their job. Get some Michelin Pro2 Races, they offer great grip, and they weigh about 150g less per tire.
If you're looking for more grip, I know they make 25c and I think they make 28. However, 23c works fine for me, even in the wet.
If you're looking for more grip, I know they make 25c and I think they make 28. However, 23c works fine for me, even in the wet.
02-09-08, 01:20 PM
#22
Used to be a climber..
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 6,849
Bikes: 2016 Ridley Fenix SL, 2020 Trek Emonda ALR (rim brake)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
Nah, my Trek came with Bonty's to (as do all Treks, Kleins, etc.). They're crap. Bontrager makes bars, saddles, stems and all that other schwag. Let the real tire companies like Michelin, Continental and Maxxis do their job. Get some Michelin Pro2 Races, they offer great grip, and they weigh about 150g less per tire.
If you're looking for more grip, I know they make 25c and I think they make 28. However, 23c works fine for me, even in the wet.
If you're looking for more grip, I know they make 25c and I think they make 28. However, 23c works fine for me, even in the wet.
I've been using PR2's for about a year now, and they grip no better, roll no better, and handle no better than the Race X Lites. Although, the PR2's seem to be more flat-prone, and in one instance had to replace a tire because the casing was ripped so much.
Not sure why everyone raves about the PR2's....they're pretty average, nothing spectacular.
02-09-08, 01:37 PM
#23
Senior Member
Far be it for me to argue with the legend, but clearly Sheldon didn't discuss all the factors involved here. Most anyone who drives a car knows about hydroplaning, no? To summarize, when the road is saturated with water, tires can lose contact with the road and cause skidding. Bald tires are much more susceptible to this than tires with good tread. Don't take my word for it, try a nice wet curve with speed the next time your auto tires are worn down.
02-09-08, 02:16 PM
#25
nom nom nom
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 2,096
Bikes: Lemond Tete de Course, Slingshot DDX, Fuji Track Pro, Surly Steamroller
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes - my first pair lasted around 1,500 miles before I replaced them. I had a second pair, but sold those wheels along with the tires.
They are very good tires, although not many people here have used them so they think they are crap. Personally, I'd rather have the Race X Lites than what I'm currently running, Michelin Pro Race 2's (for about a year now).
They are very good tires, although not many people here have used them so they think they are crap. Personally, I'd rather have the Race X Lites than what I'm currently running, Michelin Pro Race 2's (for about a year now).