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Bladed spokes? Yay or Nay.

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Bladed spokes? Yay or Nay.

Old 02-09-08, 03:07 PM
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Bladed spokes? Yay or Nay.

I'm deciding between two wheels which use the same hubs and rims, but one has bladed spokes and the other doesnt. I'm wondering if an additional cost for aero spokes is worth it and why or why not.

The wheels are neuvation r28 aeros, and r28 sls.

Thanks!

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Old 02-09-08, 03:08 PM
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Nay.
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Old 02-09-08, 03:13 PM
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Another nay but, at times it seems I'm a minority.
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Old 02-09-08, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche
I'm deciding between two wheels which use the same hubs and rims, but one has bladed spokes and the other doesnt. I'm wondering if an additional cost for aero spokes is worth it and why or why not.

The wheels are neuvation r28 aeros, and r28 sls.

Thanks!
Bladed spokes are stronger than regular double butted spokes. And they look cool. Who's building the wheel. A factory? Mechanic? Or you?
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Old 02-09-08, 04:04 PM
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I like the look of bladed spokes but honestly if their argument is that they're more aerodyamic thats a joke. How much more do they typically cost? I mean if its like 15 or 20 more and they add strength and that cool look i'd say go for them.
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Old 02-09-08, 04:06 PM
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stronger: function

look cool: form

Ya got both, what else do you want?
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Old 02-09-08, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
Bladed spokes are stronger than regular double butted spokes. And they look cool. Who's building the wheel. A factory? Mechanic? Or you?
My thoughts exactly. I would not dream of riding on a conventional 16 spoked wheel but those Ultegras with Bladed spokes are tough.
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Old 02-09-08, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
Bladed spokes are stronger than regular double butted spokes.
Not so. The part of the spoke that breaks (the J or the threads) are the same on both. Maybe the middle is stronger from the extra forging, but that doesn't help anything.

Aero spokes have less drag... it's a fact. The Neuvations are pretty good for the rim depth, aero-wise. Tour tested some clones of it back in 2002.
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Old 02-09-08, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by operator
Bladed spokes are stronger than regular double butted spokes. And they look cool. Who's building the wheel. A factory? Mechanic? Or you?
The wheels are going to be bought either directly from neuvation or used from a bfer.

I was debating between the Sl's and the Aeros, and now the debate got a little harder since the BFer offered a used set of R28sl's for 200 bucks. I'd have to spend 40 bucks more since the ones he's offering have a campy splined freehub and I'd have to buy a new one from neuvation. They cost 320 new with shipping. The 80 bucks 'saved' allows me to get a couple of other things I wanted to get. The seller states that the wheels only have about 800 miles on them. The pictures

The same BFer has the R28 aero's too but those are for 300 and would run me 340 with the cassette body swap, which is just a 20-30 dollar saving so at that point of time it's just more convenient to buy from neuvation themselves with the shimano body already present.

Thus the price difference between the two sets of wheels is about a 100 bucks.

I really like the look of the bladed spokes. They look so sweet! They'd make my cannondale look like a monster. I've talked to John at Neuvation and he said that the SL's are probably the stronger wheelset because of the higher spoke count.

Both sets of wheels have their pro's and cons, though I'm really interested in knowing if the aero spokes will make a perceptible difference.

Thanks!
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Old 02-09-08, 06:00 PM
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Any aerodynamic difference is going to be very small due to the tiny cross section of spokes. Not sure about strength.
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Old 02-09-08, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Hocam
Any aerodynamic difference is going to be very small due to the tiny cross section of spokes. Not sure about strength.
This is what I was thinking...

John Neuvation himself said that the failure mode of the wheels is a cracked rim and the higher spoke count of the SL's make them stronger. He also said that there's little difference in performance between the two.

I think it makes more sense for me to go for the used sl's due to the price consideration and since there is no 'loss' of performance. The Aero's look more fly, but the SL's are lighter. At a 100 dollar price difference, what would you do?

Ack?
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Old 02-09-08, 06:51 PM
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Lightness is hugely, hugely overrated.
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Old 02-09-08, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche
This is what I was thinking...

John Neuvation himself said that the failure mode of the wheels is a cracked rim and the higher spoke count of the SL's make them stronger. He also said that there's little difference in performance between the two.

I think it makes more sense for me to go for the used sl's due to the price consideration and since there is no 'loss' of performance. The Aero's look more fly, but the SL's are lighter. At a 100 dollar price difference, what would you do?

Ack?
Will Neuvation give you a warranty on used wheels purchased from an independent seller. If not, you give up a lot buying used and the price should reflect that loss. I don't care if the used wheels only have 1 mile on them - no warranty = great reduction in price. This is why you see new Cervelo frames going for so much less money on ebay than the dealer price. Cervelo absolutely will not warranty a frame unless its purchased through a legitimate cervelo dealer.

My personal rule of thumb is that used items with no warranty should be priced no more than 50-60% of new. A warranty on items like wheels is very valuable.

Bob
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Old 02-09-08, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rruff
Not so. The part of the spoke that breaks (the J or the threads) are the same on both. Maybe the middle is stronger from the extra forging, but that doesn't help anything.
+1

Originally Posted by rruff
Aero spokes have less drag... it's a fact. The Neuvations are pretty good for the rim depth, aero-wise. Tour tested some clones of it back in 2002.
+1

Go aero/bladed. Given the choice in any component, choose more aero after you balance durability and price. There's precious little benefit to be had for new wheels, and aero is one of the slim advantages you can get.
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Old 02-09-08, 07:07 PM
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I went for the SL's when I bought my Neuvations - my reasoning was that the extra spokes would make them stronger and that lighter was a bonus. The Aero's should theoretically be more aerodynamic (fewer spokes + bladed). These tiny differences in weight and aerodynamics are likely to be meaningless in the real world.
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Old 02-09-08, 07:07 PM
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I heard Mavic had some good luck with bladed spokes once...
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Old 02-09-08, 07:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche
Both sets of wheels have their pro's and cons, though I'm really interested in knowing if the aero spokes will make a perceptible difference.
Perceptible? No... you wouldn't notice a couple tenths of a mph in a blind test... but it all depends on what you believe and how placebo susceptible you are.
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Old 02-09-08, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rruff
Not so. The part of the spoke that breaks (the J or the threads) are the same on both. Maybe the middle is stronger from the extra forging, but that doesn't help anything.

Aero spokes have less drag... it's a fact. The Neuvations are pretty good for the rim depth, aero-wise. Tour tested some clones of it back in 2002.
Do you have a link to the test? I'd like to see what they say.
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Old 02-09-08, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by rruff
Aero spokes have less drag... it's a fact.
I have never built any wheels so correct me if I am wrong. I understand the concept of how bladed spokes work and are more aerodynamic. Now when you build a wheel don't you have the have the bladed part perfectly lined up to "slice" through the wind? If the blades are at the wrong angle aren't they effectively paddles that would slow you down? How much effort goes into lining up the blades? Is this a concern or not really?
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Old 02-09-08, 10:12 PM
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Some people also have to take into account the bladed spokes and cross winds. A little guy on our team swears that he can feel the difference between his Open Pro powertap wheelset and his Ksyriums. I've never felt it, but maybe some of the light guys can chime in?
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Old 02-09-08, 10:15 PM
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$100 bucks for bladed spokes?!?!?!?!

thats just stupid, get the regular ones.
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Old 02-09-08, 10:17 PM
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Bladed spokes own careless squirrels on the bike path.
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Old 02-09-08, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by wrobertdavis
Will Neuvation give you a warranty on used wheels purchased from an independent seller. If not, you give up a lot buying used and the price should reflect that loss. I don't care if the used wheels only have 1 mile on them - no warranty = great reduction in price. This is why you see new Cervelo frames going for so much less money on ebay than the dealer price. Cervelo absolutely will not warranty a frame unless its purchased through a legitimate cervelo dealer.

My personal rule of thumb is that used items with no warranty should be priced no more than 50-60% of new. A warranty on items like wheels is very valuable.

Bob
I emailed John and he said that he would warranty his wheels against defects no matter where you bought them.

I've actually talked to John at neuvation and the owner of Soul wheels and they both say that lower spoke count is a more aero depending on speed and aero spokes can be less aero depending on wind angle. The owner of soul said that bladed spokes make his life easier since he can see them wind up and what not. I guess they'd be easier to true too since you'd just have to put them all so they're straight assuming they haven't spun around 180 degrees. Theoretically anyway.

The rims and hubs are the same on both wheels, the spoke count and style of spoke is different. The Aeros are more aero, but at 120 bucks more, it isn't worth it, especially since the builders themselves say it. The lower spoke count makes a wheel more aero according to Sean from soul (atleast i think that's what his name is).

This is interesting.
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Old 02-09-08, 10:23 PM
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Originally Posted by EivlEvo
Bladed spokes own careless squirrels on the bike path.
only if you file them sharp first
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Old 02-09-08, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Hickeydog
only if you file them sharp first
and you don't?!?
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