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Cycling and cholesterol levels

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Cycling and cholesterol levels

Old 02-14-08, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnyone
so having a hdl of 47 isnt necessarily bad right? Last cholesterol test I had they wanted me to increase it and I was was puzzled as to why and how to go about that.

edited to correct my mistype.
Probably OK...they say >40 for males and >50 for females....but higher is better.
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Old 02-14-08, 07:07 PM
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I had whole wheat pasta and salad for dinner tonight if it makes the Rib Police feel better.
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Old 02-14-08, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I had whole wheat pasta and salad for dinner tonight if it makes the Rib Police feel better.
Dayum, that's kinda sad on Vday. We split a NY strip, 1/2 lb. shrimp scampi, baked sweet potato, and a bottle of really nice Cab. That's Vday for you.

Oh, some heart healthy dark chocolate for dessert.
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Old 02-14-08, 08:35 PM
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Valentines Day is the ultimate bull**** Greeting Card Industry Holiday. Sweet Mother of Marketing it sucks.
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Old 02-14-08, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
I don't eat a lot of greasy food. Did you read my family history? The lowest I ever got my overall cholesterol was 230, and that was riding 300 miles weekly and eating friggin carrots. I need 40mb of Lipitor to get my overall number down to 200. Some other guy with different genes might eat at Burger King daily and have a reading of 160. Yet that guy might drop dead of a massive heart attack, while somebody like my grandmother lives to 90+ with an overall level that was typically 300-450. She never took meds.

And does medical science understand why? Apparently not.
Just curious, did your grandma drink a bit of alcohol regularly?

The following may interest you.

Generally, bad cholesterol = myocardial infarctions according to doctors.

According to the recently published study in the European Heart Journal (see below):
-If you're a moderate to heavy drinker AND exercise regularly, your chances of dying of a heart attack decreases by up to 50% or more!

-If you don't drink and but do exercise, then your chances of croaking from a MCI decreases by about 30%.

-LIKEWISE, if you don't exercise BUT only drink moderately, your chances of expiring from an MCI ALSO decreases by about 30%.

Apparently alcohol gives similar results in HDL lipoprotein profile as does regular exercise AND the 2 effects are additive when practiced together.

-Otoh, If you do drink heavily, you'll likely not die of heart attack... but will have significantly higher chance of dying of some other cause (liver cirrhosis, car accident, high blood pressure, etc.)

Scientific version:
https://www.oxfordjournals.org/our_jo...pdf/ehm574.pdf


Layman's version:
https://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...0.html?cnn=yes

Last edited by ezee; 02-14-08 at 09:05 PM.
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Old 02-14-08, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
overall 201, HDL 79, LDL 106, ratio overall/hdl ratio 2.5

My doctor and I aren't increasing the Lipitor, she was happy with those numbers. Triglycerides were 78 by the way. I'll probably get hit by a friggin bus anyway.
you're fine.

why are you asking strangers when she already told you what everyone is telling you on here?
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Old 02-14-08, 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas
Yes it's pretty compelling but not 100% correlated. One can find plenty of folks with elevated cholesterol who will NEVER get a heart attack or stroke. But it all comes down to actuarial risk, that the elevated LDL cholesterol increases the probability of heart attack, and treating it lowers the risk. It's like smoking and lung cancer, we all know of lifelong smokers who live to be a ripe old age.

The science is pretty good, but it's not perfect. And conspiracy theorists are everywhere.
Dude - if you can find me any biological measurement that is 100% correlated with anything, I'll show you a faked study. LDL vs outcomes is pretty darn good in my non-MD, but years of pharma experience. Yes, there are always folks with low LDL who have a coronary - but guess what - we don't know everything. One interesting question - how long have your levels been as they are today? If someone spends 50yrs with LDL of 150 then takes lipitor for a year and reaches 95 - do they instantly assume the cardiovascular risk of someone who has had an LDL of 95 for 50yrs, probably not.

HDL of 79 is looking heroic, as another poster said check NCEP ATP-III guidelines. LDL<100 is good, <70 seems to be gaining momentum and the new 100, but sounds like you're in fine shape.
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Old 02-14-08, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AnthonyG
This is the most telling post in the thread. You know that the recommendations for ever decreasing cholesterol numbers are a scam. You can see it in your own family. The alternative point of view is that your grandmother lived to 90+ BECAUSE of her high cholesterol, not despite it. An unmediated cholesterol level of 230 is suitably low and PERFECTLY normal. Not that long ago a level of 230 was considered normal by even the mainstream but recommendations have changed which has caused many previously healthy individuals to all of a sudden require expensive medication. This change was not the result of a long term study but as a result of the deliberations of a private committee.

Sure you have faith in your doctor and you can consider this all to be conspiracy theory but the evidence is right there in your own family. Its right under your nose.

Regards, Anthony
dude, everything is a conspiracy with you.
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Old 02-14-08, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mx_599
you're fine.

why are you asking strangers when she already told you what everyone is telling you on here?
Because I've been fed more bull**** by doctors in my lifetime than most people will ever hear, and I always back check their sometimes flakey opinions, that's why. I used to think every doctor had their patient's best interests at heart. Believe me when I tell you that is far a universal truth. Don't get me started with the dopey doctor stories. I could write a friggin novel.

I got tired of reading that stupid book, so would you. It's a mixed bag. Most of my doctors have been very good, but some have been borderline quackish in my opinion. I think the whole cholesterol debate is interesting, because it's a debate to some degree. Not completely cut and dried at all.
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Old 02-14-08, 09:57 PM
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Funny that I read this today and my test results came in the mail. Total 184, HDL, 46, LDL 106 and I have been on Lipitor 10 mg. a day for years.

My doc says the Lipitor is not being controlled by the 10 mg and to up to 20 mg a day? I thought under 200 was considered fine, and LDL under 160 was the target?
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Old 02-14-08, 10:06 PM
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My TOTAL is often below 150. I've had a total below 100 before.

OK, so I'm a freak.
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Old 02-14-08, 10:07 PM
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Ironic is it, that your arteries are the only ones listening to all that htfu.
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Old 02-14-08, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by senatorw
Funny that I read this today and my test results came in the mail. Total 184, HDL, 46, LDL 106 and I have been on Lipitor 10 mg. a day for years.

My doc says the Lipitor is not being controlled by the 10 mg and to up to 20 mg a day? I thought under 200 was considered fine, and LDL under 160 was the target?
LDL under 130, although many doctors now think that should be under 100. MY LDL is 106 (identical to yours) but HDL is higher and as some have pointed out on this thread, that may be tipping the overall number to 201.
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Old 02-14-08, 10:18 PM
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Mainstream doc, and a man of science, here. What AnthonyG said.

Ask your doctor about "numbers needed to treat (NNT)" and primary prevention of vascular disease and cholesterol. Better yet, research it yourself.

Most docs tow the line. I don't mean to insult anyone here, and there's lots of good info and science. Perhaps your physician knows something you're not posting. But from what's written, you don't need lipitor.

Take care.
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Old 02-14-08, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Because I've been fed more bull**** by doctors in my lifetime than most people will ever hear, and I always back check their sometimes flakey opinions, that's why. I used to think every doctor had their patient's best interests at heart. Believe me when I tell you that is far a universal truth. Don't get me started with the dopey doctor stories. I could write a friggin novel.

I got tired of reading that stupid book, so would you. It's a mixed bag. Most of my doctors have been very good, but some have been borderline quackish in my opinion. I think the whole cholesterol debate is interesting, because it's a debate to some degree. Not completely cut and dried at all.
Well, you're lucky, at least you're being seen by doctors. My last few visits have been with physician assistants, 4th year medical students, or interns. The last PA I had was a student who thought he was Dr. Kildare. They come in, talk to you, then leave to confer with the attending physician. I rarely get to see a licensed doctor or resident. Believe me, if you want to write a bestselling novel, go to the County hospital.

Pcad, everybody's in the same boat.

Last edited by hyperneck; 02-15-08 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 02-14-08, 11:26 PM
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statins are not much more than money makers, and are not necessary in most cases of stable blood profiles. the amount of cholesterol manufactured in your liver, and the way it's packaged, are genetically determined. minor variations on that baseline come from exercise, diet, disease state, etc. low-dose meds will do very little to alter the gross profile, whch is not at all bad in your case. a lifetime sentence of high-dose meds is definitely to be avoided. try and ditch the lipitor and see what happens to your hdl/ldl ratio... probably not enough for you to keep taking the added risk of the statin side effects, which are myriad and of course under-reported by the clincal trials. this is very big business, of course. but then, I'm just a pharmacologist, i wouldn't really know as much as most people on the net.
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Old 02-15-08, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by hyperneck
Well, you're lucky, at least you're being seen by doctors. My last few visits have been with physician assistants, 4th year medical students, or interns. The last PA I had was a student who thought he was Dr. Kildare. They come in, talk to you, then leave to confer with the attending physician. I rarely get to see a licensed doctor or resident. Believe me, if you want to write a bestselling novel, go to the County hospital.

Pcad, everybody's in the same boat.
Not everybody. The weather sucks for way too many months of the year in this part of the world, but the health care is pretty top notch.
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Old 02-15-08, 01:03 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
Valentines Day is the ultimate bull**** Greeting Card Industry Holiday. Sweet Mother of Marketing it sucks.
Wrong. Father's day was pretty much invented by the greeting card industry; Valentine's day at least has some tradition behind it, even though it's got a tenuous connection with the current state of excess.

I wouldn't sweat the cholesterol levels; mine look quite similar to yours (without the drugs), and my doc is quite happy with where they stand. Sounds like you've got the genetics to run a little high but live a long life despite this.
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Old 02-15-08, 02:14 AM
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A woman's input(53 yrs. old for the record): Total cholesterol 187; LDL 91, HDL 94. Doc says that that proportion of good vs. bad is due to lifestyle and exercise. My mother's family had high bp all the way back to my great-great grandmother. I drink about 6 glasses of wine (mostly red) a week. Diet is reasonably clean, mostly low-fat, high-fiber. I could be more disciplined but that might suck the fun out of life. I try to minimize my risks when I can.
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Old 02-15-08, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by halfspeed
Not everybody. The weather sucks for way too many months of the year in this part of the world, but the health care is pretty top notch.
Health care is as 'top notch' as your specific doctor, condition and situation. I don't care if you're in Trailer Park Arkansas or the Mayo Clinic. Are your chances better at the big famous institution? Yes. Is that a guarantee you won't get dopey medical advice from a guy with a great reputation? No.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by patentcad
And does medical science understand why? Apparently not.
+1 - Doctors are clueless. I have never met one that didn't act like a lawyer that was in India on a tech support call. Simply reading from a script to stay out of court. They are all worthless.

Follow your genetics in your family. They are a better guide than any bit of medicine will ever be.

Man...it must suck getting old....
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Old 02-15-08, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Red Rider
A woman's input(53 yrs. old for the record): Total cholesterol 187; LDL 91, HDL 94. Doc says that that proportion of good vs. bad is due to lifestyle and exercise. My mother's family had high bp all the way back to my great-great grandmother. I drink about 6 glasses of wine (mostly red) a week. Diet is reasonably clean, mostly low-fat, high-fiber. I could be more disciplined but that might suck the fun out of life. I try to minimize my risks when I can.
What you may not realize is that you could drop those numbers even further if you'd just not gorge on cheese after drinking those 6 glasses of wine.


....oh....over a week I see.....that's no fun....
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Old 02-15-08, 07:48 AM
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I've seen both sides of the medical coin, doctors have put my silly ass back together more than once. But I've had experiences where the doctor literally seemed more concerned about generating a fee than treating the patient. That's disturbing, but thankfully the exception to the rule. I was surprised that I ran across that several times over the past five years. To be fair the vast majority of doctors aren't like that. But it's YOUR health, and you have to be your own advocate. NEVER take medical input without getting second opinions.
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Old 02-15-08, 07:59 AM
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National Geographic had a cover story on the heart last year. They spoke of seeing arterial plaque in 20-somethings who had died in car accidents, and showed a slick graphic depicting the mechanisms by which such plaque causes cardiovascular problems.

That concept – guys in their twenties already heading for a heart attack – is burned into my mind.
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Old 02-15-08, 08:14 AM
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So does this mean I should not eat the large brownie and chocolate hearts that one of my employees left on my desk?
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